to be disgusted at these comments made by Lord Sumption

[DoreensEatingHerSoreen]

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/law/2021/jan/17/jonathan-sumption-cancer-patient-life-less-valuable-others

Lord Sumption today told Deborah James, who is living with stage 4 bowel cancer, that her life is less valuable than the lives of others.

As a fellow stage 4 cancer patient, I find it appalling that someone could suggest our lives are less valuable than those without cancer.
In spite of my diagnosis, I live a wonderful and fulfilling life, and intend to carry on doing so for as long as is possible.
It's terrifying to think that I may be denied access to a ventilator should I become ill with Covid, and I believe we have a collective duty to do everything we can to reduce pressure on the NHS and minimise the horrific collateral damage of Covid on those living with other illnesses and conditions.

Posters on here have said similar. Lots of people banging on about it only being elderly or ill people who die from Covid, so the lockdowns arent worth it, in their eyes.

These people are vile, but there are lots of them.

I don't take issue with debate on the effectiveness of lockdown, but to tell someone to their face that their life is "less valuable" is abhorrent, particularly coming from a former Judge.

That is unbelievable that another human could say that, totally out of order. Every life is precious. Sending you good wishes.

Yes, a horrendous belief - where does it end? Are the lives of mentally ill people worth less, or the lives of those with a physical disability? Maybe the lives of the poor should be shuffled to the bottom too?

A person with a diagnosis of Cancer at Stage 4 shouldn't be at the bottom of any pile - that person needs the best care and treatment that they can be given. I've had a child go from Stage 4 to live a full and healthy life, that goodness nobody thought their life wasn't worth as much as someone else.

It's no better to say it behind their back, or to talk in the abstract as if you're not speaking about real people.

OP - keep positive.

His words have been taken out of context. He said his grandchildren’s lives were more valuable than his, because he is old and has had most of his life already. I completely agree with him on this and everything else he has said on the this government’s approach to the Coronavirus.

I think the way this was put across was wrong, but these decisions may have having to be made due to lack of icu capacity.

Emotion has to be taken out of it. I just really feel for anyone who has to make these types of decisions and live with themselves after

@bobbojobbo

It's no better to say it behind their back, or to talk in the abstract as if you're not speaking about real people.

You're absolutely right - I think I was just shocked by the brazen, uncaring nature of his comment.

It's rife on here OP, implicit and explicit. I've been absolutely floored by some of the comments over the past few months about how elderly and sick people simply don't matter enough. Chilling stuff. As one of those pesky vulnerable I have lost a whole load of faith in humanity this year :(

@Fr0thandBubble

His words have been taken out of context. He said his grandchildren’s lives were more valuable than his, because he is old and has had most of his life already. I completely agree with him on this and everything else he has said on the this government’s approach to the Coronavirus.

He cut Deborah James off mid sentence, and told her that he didn't say her life wasn't valuable, he said it was less valuable.

There was a woman on one thread who asked why was she supposed to care if old people died, sure they were going to die at some point anyway, what did it matter? She's not the only one, by a long way.

It's a common opinion. Sociopathic, some of them

Did you watch the programme op? I did and I think his words have been taken out of context. He was saying that people in their 80s dying wasn’t as tragic as children dying. And that the measures will lead to terrible effects on younger people. He said continue to shield the vulnerable and lift lockdown on the rest of society.

While I don’t agree with him, I think this article is portraying a much more callous statement that was originally said. I’m sure you can get the programme on catch up if you want to see the discussion.

Sadly his comments are not an uncommon attitude for a lot of individuals in law in this country - complete lack of empathy.

As a lawyer it’s also just a ridiculous thing to say. How does his valuable life chart work: just based on age, IQ, does an only child get more value then a child with siblings?

Doreen, there is no way anyone can defend what he said. When we start voicing comments like these, we have crossed a shocking line.

The pp are right. The view of the vulnerable are less valued is rife on here. Many a time someone will post 'but they had underlying conditions' so they don't count or its understandable Thankfully, I haven't heard this comment in real life.

I saw the clip, and while perhaps missing the context of his earlier comments, when he was speaking to Deborah he didn't appear to hold back from sayjng that HER life was less valuable.
Deborah isn't in her 80s, she's in her 30s like me, I feel that it will be tragic when we die regardless of whether this is die to Covid, cancer, or something else.
I will try to rewatch the whole piece.

• due

Everyone instinctively knows what he said is true, it's why a child's death is considered a tragedy and an elderly person's a release. It's incredibly naive and a huge privelege to take great offence and claim these things should never be thought about let alone spoken. Don't kid yourself that decisions like these don't ever have to be made, thank your lucky stars you don't have to make them and instead have the luxury of wringing your hands at home.

Personally I do feel that as an overall demographic, the lives of people in their 10s (for example) are more valuable than the lives of people in their 90s. If I had to choose between two such patients for the last ventilator, I would give it to the child.

Hopefully I will never have to be in that position.

The balance of pressure on the NHS versus the impact on the economy, children missing school etc is difficult and I don't envy the government. There does need to be an ongoing conversation about approach and weighing up the negatives Vs the hoped for gains.

This polarisation of you don't care about people with age/ other risk factors factors for covid Vs you don't care about the upturn in CSA and other abuse, long term effects etc is unhelpful but I understand why it's so polarised.

To say to that to that woman's face is fucking disgusting and callous though.

If you as an individual or the country as a whole had to choose between a child or an octogenarian living, the child would be chosen.

All lives have equal value but scarce resources have to be allocated strategically.

You need to listen to everything he said.

It is awful to think about - but someone in authority does have to put a value on a human life when it comes to allocating limited resources.

I think the context of the conversation and taking the emotion out of a debate is important.

The NHS has used QALYs for years to decide on the cost effectiveness of cancer treatment. I think that was the point he was possibly trying to make.