to be disgusted at these comments made by Lord Sumption

[DoreensEatingHerSoreen]

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/law/2021/jan/17/jonathan-sumption-cancer-patient-life-less-valuable-others

Lord Sumption today told Deborah James, who is living with stage 4 bowel cancer, that her life is less valuable than the lives of others.

As a fellow stage 4 cancer patient, I find it appalling that someone could suggest our lives are less valuable than those without cancer.
In spite of my diagnosis, I live a wonderful and fulfilling life, and intend to carry on doing so for as long as is possible.
It's terrifying to think that I may be denied access to a ventilator should I become ill with Covid, and I believe we have a collective duty to do everything we can to reduce pressure on the NHS and minimise the horrific collateral damage of Covid on those living with other illnesses and conditions.

@gottakeeponmovin

You don't have to be a medic, rocket scientist or Spock to work out what happens if you have one bed and two people and one of them has cancer

Correct - you leave the doctors to decide on the basis of the full medical picture. If the person with cancer is also say a slim, 40ish marathon runner, currently stable, female, non-BAME, no other co-morbities; they are quite possibly much more likely to not die in ICU than an obese, 60ish, sedentary, male who is BAME with pre-diabetes.

Not on pre-conceptions of valuable/less valuable

If there's a vacancy on the nearest ethics committee, @gottakeeponmovin, I do hope you'll go for it, they need that kind of hard hitting, no shitting about logic.

I've never seen more public discussion about the value of people's lives and whose lives are being 'sacrificed' and to what end

Nor I, Hazey, and there's no denying it's dreadful that it needs discussing at all

But so much on SM is emotional grandstanding, as opposed to the medics who have to make difficult decisions every day. Pose a question about what approach might be best and you'll be called a murderer, a moron or worse

Just popping back in with the thing that was bothering me. I posted ages ago and tbh haven't caught up.

A pp suggested that everyone should think about dnr and etc.

I understand why they said that.

However. There are a lot of people battling with MH problems. Not just due to covid. People who put less worth on their own life. For whatever reason. These people tend to be the ones who do the 'hero' stuff. People who have an eroded, or less urgent survival instinct. Arguably the people who do extreme sports, go climbing dangerous things etc have a less urgent sense of self preservation.

So what of them. Does this need to be taken into account? There are young fit healthy people who for whatever reason, just aren't so wed to life.

Should they be signing DNR etc?

This whole conversation assumes people want to live at any cost. The cohort who have that feeling less. Are not thought of.

Weird post I know but it's true.

Sorry not to suggest that people who feel less survival instinct all have MH problems!

Without them there'd be no explorers etc.

@NiceGerbil

Just popping back in with the thing that was bothering me. I posted ages ago and tbh haven't caught up.

A pp suggested that everyone should think about dnr and etc.

I understand why they said that.

However. There are a lot of people battling with MH problems. Not just due to covid. People who put less worth on their own life. For whatever reason. These people tend to be the ones who do the 'hero' stuff. People who have an eroded, or less urgent survival instinct. Arguably the people who do extreme sports, go climbing dangerous things etc have a less urgent sense of self preservation.

So what of them. Does this need to be taken into account? There are young fit healthy people who for whatever reason, just aren't so wed to life.

Should they be signing DNR etc?

This whole conversation assumes people want to live at any cost. The cohort who have that feeling less. Are not thought of.

Weird post I know but it's true.

I think it might depend if they have capacity. I have LPA for a relative with dementia, I signed the DNR not her. Doctor talked me through it and advised me it was best, she is late 80s and advanced dementia.

There might be something similar for younger people.

Dementia isn't a mental health illness though.

The vast majority of people with mental health problems have capacity. Most are working, raising families, going to school, etc etc