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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

When do we teach daughters to fight back?

353 replies

Jimbellselmbath · 16/01/2021 23:47

Dd has been in trouble in school for "fighting"
She is 12 and a little skinny thing.
The other side was a boy, a school year older, taller and bigger, she said he has already turned 14. So nearer 2 years older.
He has history for attacking girls back to primary but his parents are very vocal and protective and their boy is an angel.
DD got the better of him in the "fight"
Dd said he started it and she finished it like we had always told her to do.
None of the above was disputed by either side.
DD was placed in isolation for a week although lockdown happened so she did 2 days. The boy got nothing although he was in school.
What has really riled me is the teacher was so bothered about her retaliating, that was the source of her punishment.
Having had time to think about it I am not happy.
So dd shouldn't retaliate? Should she do so when she's older?
If an older boy kicks her in the fanny on the bus, should she wait until the next day to report at school? What if he's not from the school? What about an adult? Should she sit quietly and take his abuse? At what age can a girl fight back? I want to go to his house but dd would die of shame
I have no faith in the school

OP posts:
LadyOfTheFlowers · 17/01/2021 10:38

She made sure he doesn't do it to her again and seeing as he seems to have form for attacking smaller girls, yes, she is brilliant.

HitchFlix · 17/01/2021 10:39

When you're acting in self defense no response is excessive IMO. Good on her!

ceeveebee · 17/01/2021 10:39

Wow
There is a difference between self defence and what your dd did
The boy was vile to have done what he did and should have been reported and dealt with appropriately by the teachers

If that is how your dd has been taught to respond, then she will end up in prison or dead.

Although I am also very doubtful that any of this is true. For one thing what schools are having fire drills that result in mixing bubbles during this lockdown. And in the op you describe your dd as “very skinny” like she is some weak defenceless snowflake and then it turns out she went all kill bill on his ass. Very fishy.

queenMab99 · 17/01/2021 10:40

Her seemingly over violent retaliation, may be explained by my son's reason, for breaking an older and bigger boy's nose resulting in his own broken hand, he said 'once I started, I had to keep going until I was sure he wouldn't try again'. He had been bullied for weeks on the school bus at 13 by bigger 15 year old boys.

LadyOfTheFlowers · 17/01/2021 10:42

Exactly. He kicks her. She kicks him. He kicks her again. She kicks him again. He knocks her to the floor... then what?
She finished it. She made sure she wasn't the one on the floor.

Wheresmykimchi · 17/01/2021 10:43

@StepOutOfLine

The situation as described is completely preposterous

Emeraldshamrock · 17/01/2021 10:45

She got the better of him as she has always been taught to fight back and not back down and been taught how to defend herself This is wrong on many levels put genders aside it is bad advice for any child.
Knowing you can and should walk away at times is important too.
I'm beginning to think this thread is a stealth boast it wouldn't surprise me giving the honour that goes with a win fight in a rough area.

WorraLiberty · 17/01/2021 10:50

Morning OP. I hope your DD is feeling better today.

Having just read your version of how your DD retaliated, I can quite understand why you haven't taken this to the police. I'm not sure that fairly prolonged attack would necessarily be seen as self-defence.

Also, the age gap (whilst not that important in the grand scheme of things) is not as big as you claimed, assuming this is the DD you were talking about the other week as you said she's very nearly 13.

I'd definitely leave the police out of it just now and listen to what the school have to say on the matter and everything that might've lead up to it.

Then take it from there if you want to.

Wheresmykimchi · 17/01/2021 10:52

@LadyOfTheFlowers

Exactly. He kicks her. She kicks him. He kicks her again. She kicks him again. He knocks her to the floor... then what? She finished it. She made sure she wasn't the one on the floor.
No. This didn't happen.

OP herself claims he kicked her and she floored him.

Hazelnutlatteplease · 17/01/2021 10:54

LadyOfTheFlowers

According to the OP the boy kicked her once. We dont know the context of that kick. For all we know the OPs DD could have started it verbally or they were messing around and the boy accidentally caught her. We dont know because it isn't in the OP.

She finished it. She made sure she wasn't the one on the floor.

And next time she tries this, what happens if she does end up the one on the floor? Will you still be congratulating your child then? Or is it only if you win a fight its admirable? Endorse this, and you are setting your child up for being properly beaten up one day.

once I started, I had to keep going until I was sure he wouldn't try again
The only way you can be sure it will never happen again is by killing them. This is how violence escalates.

What happens if the DD hits him and he suffers a brain hemorrhage? What the girl did in the OP is way beyond self defense. If you use violence to solve problems, you need to accept consequences.

Wheresmykimchi · 17/01/2021 10:56

I have worked in schools for long enough to know that I have never yet seen any of the following things...

A two and half hour fire drill
A fire drill where all assembled members of staff watched a fight and did nothing / the kids are all outside and the staff are all inside , depending on whether you read the OP or the updates
A pupil able to leave a fire alarm to find a dinner lady
A pupil kept in an evacuated building
A pupil who has been involved in a full blown fist fight kept until the end of the day
A fight dealt with by email
A young girl able to overpower and repeatedly floor, punch and kick an older young man (with or without intervention)
One pupil punished and not the other

As for the being proud of the daughters retaliation....well Biscuit

MilesJuppIsMyBitch · 17/01/2021 10:56

@supernanmam

We all know what a fanny is, however is that what we teach our kids to call them. It just sounds so crude.
I have taught my daughter to call it a fanny. It's normal.
Ukholidaysaregreat · 17/01/2021 11:06

OP no need to apologise for the phrasing. People who come on this thread to comment about that are completely missing the point that your daughter was assaulted and the boy received no punishment. I would take it up with the Head or the school governors. Good Luck. P.s. well done on your daughter for standing up for herself.

Hazelnutlatteplease · 17/01/2021 11:10

well done on your daughter for standing up for herself.
Have you read what she did?

FrippEnos · 17/01/2021 11:10

@year5teacher

Hang on, are you saying that a fire alarm drill lasted from 12:30-3pm while the entire school of children messed about outside and the teachers stood around chatting?
They were apparently all in side. Including the teachers that were on duty and the lunch staff.
MoodyMarshall · 17/01/2021 11:10

Kids haven't been in school since before Christmas. Thread reported.

MsF1t · 17/01/2021 11:11

@LadyDique

Large 14 year old boy attacks slight 12 year old girl with no provocation and it's the girl who's punished. Not only that, but the slight 12 year old girl got the better of the hulking 14 year old boy in the ensuing fight - is she a trained ninja?

Seems like there's quite a bit missing from this story to me tbh.

When I was 13, a boy of 17 from the rugby team at my school grabbed a friend of mine in Y7 by the crotch, hard, after verbally bullying her for a few minutes. I punched him with enough force to send him flying into the road. Adrenaline can be pretty powerful. (Should have seen his face. I th8nk he learned a lesson that day.)
77wasmyyear · 17/01/2021 11:15

@RoomOfRequirement

Kicks her in the fanny? Are you for real? Vile phrasing.

What's vile is that you're more offended by words than a 12 year old being assaulted and then the school being misogynistic in their handling of it. As always.

Well said
LizFlowers · 17/01/2021 11:18

@Housebuyer2021

Kicks her in the fanny? Are you for real? Vile phrasing.
I understood what the op meant. I daresay she could have said, "Kicked her in the vulva", or "..between her legs", but so what? Never mind the 'vile phrasing', it was a vile and violent thing for a boy to do! I do not know how he got away with that and, more importantly, why he did such a thing. It's dreadful.

I'd have been tempted to kick him in the balls - the scrotum. However he is bigger than her.

What kind of parents bring up a boy to do things like that? I'd die of shame if it was my son.

Faye32 · 17/01/2021 11:20

Also the posts about weapons being brought into it if things escalate , in proper martial arts they are taught to be able to deal with all sorts of events like this which could happen, how to block knives , being attacked from behind etc ! This kind of situation can happen in any circumstance in life so if my daughter is able to give herself a chance of defence rather than not ever having a clue I know which I’d prefer her to be able to do !!!!!!!

Wheresmykimchi · 17/01/2021 11:23

@Faye32

Also the posts about weapons being brought into it if things escalate , in proper martial arts they are taught to be able to deal with all sorts of events like this which could happen, how to block knives , being attacked from behind etc ! This kind of situation can happen in any circumstance in life so if my daughter is able to give herself a chance of defence rather than not ever having a clue I know which I’d prefer her to be able to do !!!!!!!
How many young woman do you think actually martial art their way out of being murdered by a man? Life is not a film.

Regardless as stated by PP, no martial art teaches you to batter the living shit out of someone , only defend yourself.

My friend is a black belt and if she used any more than reasonable force to defend herself she would no longer be allowed to practice.

This all null and void anyway as the OP is talking complete rubbish but those actions as presented were not self defenceand it genuinely worries me how many people think it's acceptable.

Faye32 · 17/01/2021 11:26

That’s absolute rubbish about not being able to practice !

Housebuyer2021 · 17/01/2021 11:28

@Housebuyer2021

It read to me like the OP was thinking about things that could happen in the future in that last paragraph so I was surprised by the phrasing. Apologies for the misunderstanding Smile

I hope you manage to sort this out OP.

Helpfully quoting my own post where I apologised for misunderstanding the OP.

Put your pitchforks away.

RandomLondoner · 17/01/2021 11:29

The people thinking the daughters response was over the top need to get a grip. From a purely self-defence point of view, given the other person was more powerful, it could/would be rational to keep going until you are sure the person isn't going to get up. But the law doesn't require someone in the midst of an attack to be particularly rational, or have good judgement about proportionality.

It's arguable whether it's sensible to fly into full fight mode in the first place, but it's not immoral or illegal to do so, as long as it's in the heat of the moment.

Her response was absolutely disproportionate especially as she kept going when he was on the floor

The legal system does nor require someone who is the middle of being attacked to judge proportionality in the same way as some commenter on the internet who wasn't there later would. Everything she did could have been done within a few seconds of him kicking her, that is soon enough for it to be instinctive and immediate reaction. (If he'd run away and she'd followed him and done all she did, that would be different.)

Makingnumber2 · 17/01/2021 11:31

@Smile3 an eye for an eye makes the the whole world blind.

Retaliation rarely ends things. Often it just escalated. Revenge beatings or killings etc spring to mind.

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