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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

When do we teach daughters to fight back?

353 replies

Jimbellselmbath · 16/01/2021 23:47

Dd has been in trouble in school for "fighting"
She is 12 and a little skinny thing.
The other side was a boy, a school year older, taller and bigger, she said he has already turned 14. So nearer 2 years older.
He has history for attacking girls back to primary but his parents are very vocal and protective and their boy is an angel.
DD got the better of him in the "fight"
Dd said he started it and she finished it like we had always told her to do.
None of the above was disputed by either side.
DD was placed in isolation for a week although lockdown happened so she did 2 days. The boy got nothing although he was in school.
What has really riled me is the teacher was so bothered about her retaliating, that was the source of her punishment.
Having had time to think about it I am not happy.
So dd shouldn't retaliate? Should she do so when she's older?
If an older boy kicks her in the fanny on the bus, should she wait until the next day to report at school? What if he's not from the school? What about an adult? Should she sit quietly and take his abuse? At what age can a girl fight back? I want to go to his house but dd would die of shame
I have no faith in the school

OP posts:
Funneth · 17/01/2021 03:43

@Wheresmykimchi
Not necessarily, I expect her actions were more a result of being sexually violently assaulted rather than the random attack which suggests a waste of space dad

Wheresmykimchi · 17/01/2021 03:44

@DioneTheDiabolist

You think the OP is a troll? Report it, don't feed it.
Didn't say that. But I, like many others , so I'm stil waiting for you to explain why you singled me out in your post , don't think the story adds up one bit.
Wheresmykimchi · 17/01/2021 03:44

[quote Funneth]@Wheresmykimchi
Not necessarily, I expect her actions were more a result of being sexually violently assaulted rather than the random attack which suggests a waste of space dad[/quote]
Right. Absolute nonsense, then.

londonscalling · 17/01/2021 03:59

School should have CCTV outside. My local high school does despite it being in a remote village. Teachers can soon look at the CCTV to check what happened.

Mummyoflittledragon · 17/01/2021 04:16

Ok ignoring all the troll hunting. Hmm

I would also be careful about reporting this to the police in light of the retaliation from your dd. In my opinion (as a mum), it was beyond reasonable force. I am not an expert of course. Your dd is unlikely to ever get picked on at school again.

I understand you are angry. The most I would do in this circumstance is raise a complaint with the school. I’d also be having a serious talk with your daughter about this. My dd is the same age and I would be appalled if she did what you’ve said. Both should have been punished, of course. But if you think the level of violence in her retaliation is acceptable, I’m shocked. It’s quite worrying actually. She could get herself in serious trouble in the future.

Fcuk38 · 17/01/2021 04:16

Well don’t to your daughter! I’ve also told both my kids they never start anything but if someone starts on them
And there isn’t an adult around to help then they have to defend themselves and fight back and they will never be in trouble with me for doing so. That also means looking out for one another, someone starts on my daughter I’d hope
My son would step in.

Buccanarab · 17/01/2021 04:34

I would also be careful about reporting this to the police in light of the retaliation from your dd. In my opinion (as a mum), it was beyond reasonable force. I am not an expert of course. Your dd is unlikely to ever get picked on at school again.

I'm sorry but when it comes to being sexual assaulted, which being kicked in the genitals most certainly is, there is no beyond reasonable force retaliation.

Unfortunately OP your daughter has experienced what happens to most people who respond to bullies with force. The only thing you can do is assure her her actions were right and be safe in the knowledge she'll be able to handle herself going forward.

BoomBoomsCousin · 17/01/2021 05:57

I'm sorry but when it comes to being sexual assaulted, which being kicked in the genitals most certainly is, there is no beyond reasonable force retaliation.

A kick to the genitals is not, a priori, sexual assault. There would need to be some indication that it was intended to be sexual (e.g. intended to arouse) rather than the more obvious intention of causing pain as a kick elsewhere might be intended to cause. Just because something happens to the genitals or breasts doesn't make that something sexual.

mymadpuppy · 17/01/2021 06:22

This reply has been deleted

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MessAllOver · 17/01/2021 06:55

Your daughter has the right to defend herself if attacked, but in all honesty, she shouldn't have to.

Why haven't you been reporting this to the police on your daughter's behalf as assault/sexual assault of your daughter? This boy is above the age of criminal responsibility and violence in school should be treated exactly the same way as violence out of school. Also report the school for breaches of safeguarding and consider going to your local MP and newspapers if they fail to take appropriate action.

I don't want to put this all on you (clearly boy/school are the main culprits), but you should not be sending your daughter somewhere where she can expect to be regularly physically attacked.

supernanmam · 17/01/2021 07:17

Like someone said before, we shouldn’t be teaching our kids to fight. Yes to defend themselves to a certain degree, but a girl isn’t usually a match for a much stronger male. Just imagine a young girl getting attacked at night.......stay and fight? where she’ll probably not win, or do her best to get away as quickly as possible, and report. Your dd might have got the better in this fight, but that won’t always be the case.

Pringlemonster · 17/01/2021 07:18

Police ..100% ..not that they will do much
Head ,and governors ..complain loudly
I would not of allowed her to do the days in isolation
He should be punished ,I would not rest untill he was

Zoecarter · 17/01/2021 07:25

@Jimbellselmbath please don’t use the excuse that you are from Liverpool. I don’t know anyone who would say “kicked in fanny”. What a horrible phrase 🤮🤮🤮. I would however speak to the school

Pringlemonster · 17/01/2021 07:30

Ah ...I’ve just read where you said what she did in retaliation.
That information should be in your original post ,as it’s very important.
Personally,I’d leave the matter at that ..I’d be worried,if it was me ,that the boys parents might report my dd to the police for an assault on him.
Yes he started it ...but I’m not sure that the police would think her response was appropriate..I’d be worried about my dd getting in to trouble ,so I’d probably think ,she handled it well ,she dealt with it ,and I’d leave it there ...
But I’m interested to see what the majority on here think ,would most people still report it ,after her attack on him in response...
I don’t know

Notyourcat · 17/01/2021 07:54

The law doesn’t prosecute rapists. There should be lots of campaigns telling men not to rape but strangely there aren’t. The effects of bullying, abuse and rape are lifelong and devastating. The school won’t protect her, the police won’t protect her so please teach her to protect herself. Better a week in iso than a lifetime of failed relationships, depression and misery. Also, he won’t be trying that again!

StepOutOfLine · 17/01/2021 08:03

You also need to clarify the school's health and safety policy as the incident seems to have happened when a large group of children appeared to be unsupervised for a long time.

Fire drills are generally organized like military operations and last for a very short time. Many schools have their drills monitored by the Fire Service and have to put detailed reports in afterwards in order to have their fire safety certificate approved and updated. The students should never be left alone during any of the procedure which here they clearly were.

If it was a fire alarm (not a drill) all the more reason why the children must be accompanied at all times, to stop them inadvertently returning into a potentially dangerous building (as your daughter did- we know there wasn't a fire, but they don't go back in under any circumstances) That your daughter could only find a lunchtime assistant after going into the school unseen by any adult is a bad breech of H&S.

What did the school email say after the incident? I'd have thought whatever the incident had been, so many parents would have queried the fact the kids had been outside for about 3 hours unsure as to why, the school would have quickly whacked an email out explaining.

changedmynamelol · 17/01/2021 08:05

Take your child to the doctor and also the police? It's kind of obvious.

Dancingmeldew · 17/01/2021 08:07

I don't know if your a troll or not. But I would let it go now. He's been taught a lesson. He's been humiliated by a little girl. If this is true then maybe he might think before raising his hand to girl/woman again. It sounds like your daughter did some damage. I would let your daughter know I was proud of her for defending herself. Perhaps even treat her. But if they were adults which they soon will be, she might of been charged with assault herself.

I think all girls should be taught to defend themselves. In proper self defense classes. When classes start again I would be looking in to this. They can teach her to defend herself properly/safely not just attack.

NotDonna · 17/01/2021 08:27

@Jimbellselmbath in your original post you say ‘if she was kicked in the fanny on the bus’ but you now say it was during a fire drill.

Coffeeandcocopops · 17/01/2021 08:51

@Jimbellselmbath

She punched him in the chest, kicked him in the balls, punched him in the face, knocking him down then while he was on the floor, she jumped on top of him and punched him repeatedly in his face. Thank you for picking up on the fact that while the children were shivering on the games court for 2.5 hours due to the fire alarm, staff were going about their business inside the building nice and warm, I will mention that in my complaint as the email specifically states that she re entered the building and found a member of staff, I hadn't picked up on that. Good point. Thanks
Blimey I would be reporting your DD to the police too for assault - if any of this is true. For a start when kids start fighting it is so obvious to everyone as kids crowd round and shout. You are telling us that no one else went to find a teacher and the teachers were all standing around chatting and didn’t see a thing??
Emeraldshamrock · 17/01/2021 08:56

Neither behaved well. Your DD overly hit him back I suspect she got the better because he was in shock or didn't relitalite due to crowd watching.
I'm sure if he wanted to have a proper punching match with her he'd be stronger, he played a bigger person when eyes were on yet she went over board.
Next time her opposition may not lay down to be kicked and might seriously assault her.
Both should have been put on detention, remind DD it is easy to give someone a good kick when they're not hitting back, some blokes could happily have a full fist fight.

Emeraldshamrock · 17/01/2021 08:58

Always best speaking to a teacher before assaulting him.

Notyourcat · 17/01/2021 09:02

Apologies for writing more about rape than abuse before. Many men think it’s acceptable to hurt and bully women and once a woman has “the fear” of abuse it shows in the way they behave and makes them more open to abuse. Although OP’s did might have gone too far, she has made the very powerful statement that she will not be a victim. That is going to help her through life, she won’t date the potential abusers because when they first test the waters with milder abuse she will either stand up to them or dump them. She feels powerful and believes in her right not to be abused. This is what we should be teaching kids- male and female. My dad pointed out one day when we passed a poster that said “domestic abuse kills 3 women in the UK each week “ that they weren’t telling men to stop hurting women and actually it seemed like a threat towards women. It scared her. As long as the patriarchy normalises abuse and rape by not teaching men not to abuse and severely punishing those who do women will never truly feel equal. Why would they?

stillhappytohelp · 17/01/2021 09:03

please don’t use the excuse that you are from Liverpool. I don’t know anyone who would say “kicked in fanny”. What a horrible phrase 🤮🤮🤮.

@Zoecarter She was kicked in the fanny? The fanny is what it is known as in many parts of the country. Get a grip

Coffeeandcocopops · 17/01/2021 09:04

A 14 year old boy, who you admit is bigger than your DD would not have ended up in the floor being punched by your DD. He clearly backed down. I have boys. They are strong. I agree your DD needs to defend herself but let’s be honest if a male attacks a women in 99% of the cases the women is out strengthened. Your DD needs to be taught safety. Same as I tell my sons if they are attacked, run, yell and tell. Do not hang around because a knife or half a glass bottle will be used.