So where does it go wrong for women?

[Falalalafishfingers]

I'm sure this has been asked a 1009 times!
Read so many times in threads that it makes more sense for woman to give up work/ cut hours as dh/dp earns so much more. This suggests that men are already earning more pre-children?
So where does it go wrong? My guess is university.

The stats show clearly that the gender gap only emerges when children come along. There have been a lot of threads speculating about the causes.

@Phineyj really? So why do so many women give up their careers?

Women chose men who earn more than them.

Women want to stay home with their babies and so fall behind in pay/progression.

This would all be solved if women wanted to date low-earning men and were willing to work full-time after maternity leave.

I'm sure I've read that studies show men are more likely to go for promotions where they don't meet all the criteria, whilst women wait until they are overqualified for the position.

Men are far less likely to go part time or refuse promotion after children than women. Hence the pay gap

@GCITC I've read and see that in RL too

I thought young women out earned men now

Well arguably it starts at birth when people start conditioning their girls to sit pretty and not be assertive.

Also don't women on average marry men older than them?
So the men with be 2 or 5 years 'ahead' in their career and so more likely to be earning more when the child comes along?

Women 'of fertile age' are assumed by some recruiters to be going to get pregnant so don't get jobs/promotions over men.

Obviously this is regardless of whether the woman wants to have kids or not, or her fertility. It's "safer" to hire a bloke, in their minds.

Add to that the women in traditionally 'female' roles that get paid less than 'traditionally 'male' roles. (e.g. nursery workers who are massively underpaid given their responsibilities)

I wish I knew.

I know so many women that went to university, then found careers, were good at it and working their way up the ladder, then boom along comes a baby or 3, and they want to give up their careers to bake bloody cookies, pretend to be Pinterest mums and post on bloody Instagram. Not earning a penny whilst their husbands have all the control.

Husband then gets bored as they fell in love with an intelligent professional they now have a mum and cook at home, so they sleep with their assistants.

I wish women would bloody stop giving up all their intelligence and careers because of a family.

(Yes I get it makes some happy but come on!)

I agree with the part time point. If it were more socially acceptable for men to work part time after having kids then things would balance out more.

I know plenty of women who are full time main earners, and their dh also works full time for a much smaller wage, that doesn’t cover childcare. It rarely happens the other way round.

I have given up my career for a few years because I want to raise my children myself. I’m fully aware I will be lucky to earn the same or more when I start again. If men earn more pre children it may be because they are often older.

Btw OP, get yourself a copy of 'Invisible Women'. It'll answer all your questions and more, as well as raise a hell of a lot more!

@GCITC

That’s the exact reason male doctors are paid more than female doctors in the NHS.

It’s based on payment awards you have to apply for and justify why you deserve it. Women are more likely to undervalue themselves.

That is what women are socialised to do. It does not result from a biological difference, it is a learnt behaviour.

Women on Mumsnet are not a representative sample of women across the UK. The high earners don't tend to post on here. I have high-earning friends, who earn more than their DHs, and no way would they have time to be chatting on Mumsnet.

Tbh it tends to go wrong for individual women when they let their standards slip.

For women as a sex, it goes wrong from early childhood, as we're conditioned to have lower aspirations and less self confidence than boys, and encouraged at every turn to put ourselves last.

@HelloThereMeHearties

Women on Mumsnet are not a representative sample of women across the UK. The high earners don't tend to post on here. I have high-earning friends, who earn more than their DHs, and no way would they have time to be chatting on Mumsnet.

Lol. I'm a high earning woman outearning my DH by at least 300%, i spend a lot of time chatting on here.

I earnt more when DC were first born, but I was happy to be main carer, so went part time.

@MindGrapes

Women 'of fertile age' are assumed by some recruiters to be going to get pregnant so don't get jobs/promotions over men.

Obviously this is regardless of whether the woman wants to have kids or not, or her fertility. It's "safer" to hire a bloke, in their minds.

Or an older woman whose kids are all grown up.

@MaskingForIt

Women chose men who earn more than them.

Women want to stay home with their babies and so fall behind in pay/progression.

This would all be solved if women wanted to date low-earning men and were willing to work full-time after maternity leave.

I think it's much more complicated than that - you are putting everything on the women but (male) society operates against them.

Most women I know start on the same footing as their male partners. But even if they don't have children the gender pay gap exists (see e.g. law).

It's an issue that employers still aren't family friendly. Jobs aren't family friendly. Women are discriminated against by employers. Men are sexist and for many after they have kids, the men (their husbands) expect their wives to be the main carers. Men magically revert to expecting the woman to stay at home, to clean, to cook. Even if they both go back to work, the men expect the women to go the nursery drop offs, to take time off if the child is sick, to be the one ironing the uniform. etc

In short - it's because society is sexist. The Patriachy.

And yes, men are more likely to be promoted.

Me and my partner (he is 4 years older) earned the same until kids came along. The trouble is he thought putting them in nursery 5 days a week was fine. I thought it was too much so I went part time...... part time is where it impacts your ability to do more/be more

I think women marrying men a bit older than them must be a big part of them being the main earner pre kids.

Also I think Sheryl Sandberg's book said women won't go for promotion because they are planning kids in 3 year's time rather than realising that the more senior you are, generally the more options you have and control over your schedule.