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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Aibu to wonder when will I become an illegal immigrant?

212 replies

SchrodingersImmigrant · 15/01/2021 09:29

🤦🤦🤦🤦
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55672194

EU citizens now have their status online with no physical proof given... It looks like accidental deletion isn't that hard to do.

Aibu to wonder when will I turn from Schrodingersimmigrant to IDontKnowHowButIAmIllegalImmigrantNow ?

Any fellow stealers of all jobs while also takers of all benefits here and having thoughts about this?

OP posts:
donquixotedelamancha · 15/01/2021 18:52

Oh come on OP, why do you need a piece of paper to prove your legal right to remain? What could be more reliable than Home Office records.

It seems a little far fetched to suggest the Government would grant thousands of people the right to live here, then change their mind decades later, throw away all the paperwork and start trying to deport them.

You might as well be suggesting the Government would send vans driving round the street with 'Go home' painted on the side.

donquixotedelamancha · 15/01/2021 18:53

I just want a valid card so if I lose it it's my own fault 😂You know. Being in control somewhat

I think you'll find taking back control isn't as much fun as it sounds.

PurplePansy05 · 15/01/2021 18:55

Indeed, they could put a dated stamp confirming the status for the next 5 years in a passport, including upon its renewal. And then another stamp after 5 years etc to confirm the status remains applicable. I think maybe they don't do it because some uneducated people would think it's like a visa that may expire on a certain date? I'm not sure really.

PurplePansy05 · 15/01/2021 18:57

You might as well be suggesting the Government would send vans driving round the street with 'Go home' painted on the side.

If this wasn't so fucking sad and low it would actually be funny! I still can't believe they've gone and done it!

SchrodingersImmigrant · 15/01/2021 18:57

😂 Taking back control and the super vans😂

@PurplePansy05 as far as I know The3million were yrying, but no fruition. I already had to chat with my MP about HO once, so might try again😂

OP posts:
SchrodingersImmigrant · 15/01/2021 18:59

Just to make sure I am nkt an askhole.
I do really have copies of everything, so that advice is obviously good. I also don't want to panic anyone. Just moan 😁

OP posts:
PurplePansy05 · 15/01/2021 19:00

The 3Million have done hell of a job on the whole.

I'd definitely support this initiative and I actually still think a petition may have a very good reach, tbh. It's in the interest of A LOT of people and their families IMO.

Solina · 15/01/2021 19:02

I keep thinking I need to sort out the citizenship application as I also don't trust I will be ok in the future. Says a lot I think.

Luckily for me we can afford the application and my country allows dual nationalities. Which makes things a lot more simple for me thankfully.

TableFlowerss · 15/01/2021 19:02

@ListeningQuietly

Tableflowers They also have to think of the standard of living of their own citizens above all else. If they had opened borders for anyone from anywhere they would soon be overwhelmed. In the words of The Economist magazine let them in and let them work

No benefits for migrants in the first three years
but the automatic right for Migrants and Refugees to earn a living right away.

With proper employment protections
(minimum wage, sick pay, holiday pay, the money for enforcement)
everybody benefits.
The the people smugglers are out of a job.
The workshy can go back whence they came.
Those who want to better themselves can do so.

Falafels all round

Whilst in theory it’s a great idea, in practice not so much.

Take somewhere like Belgium, one of the richest nations on the planet, but one of the smallest. If they declared their borders open for everyone, it wouldn’t take long for the country to be swamped.

If the the entire population of Brazil decided to move for a change of scenery, it wouldn’t work, despite the best intentions. There is only so many people that could physically live there as there would be no room for any more house.

So it’s a logistics dilemma as much as anything else.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 15/01/2021 19:06

@PurplePansy05

The 3Million have done hell of a job on the whole.

I'd definitely support this initiative and I actually still think a petition may have a very good reach, tbh. It's in the interest of A LOT of people and their families IMO.

They did A LOT yeah
OP posts:
BiBabbles · 15/01/2021 19:11

Secondly, I am pretty sure a biometric permit isn't required. Where is this requirement coming from?

It's been a requirement for non-EU migrants for years. to be able to work or access services. We can travel on our passports - apparently our old paper visas are safe enough for that - but anything else my ILR was meant to be used for has been been replaced by BRP (which apparently won't be safe enough in 2025). There has been a lot of talk about how to fold everyone into one system, that EU citizens might have similar requirements in the future, but so much is still vague about how things are going to move forward - another reason many, EU and non-EU, are pushing for citizenship where possible -- but I'm four years into actively going for citizenship. Many trying now will likely face some of the changes ahead.

I do however think there needs to be some kind of border control to reside in countries. They also have to think of the standard of living of their own citizens above all else. If they had opened borders for anyone from anywhere they would soon be overwhelmed.

I’m taking about the US for example and if they opened their borders now and there was no immigration control at all, very soon they would have millions upon millions of people moving there. Great for those seeking a better life, but equally where do you draw the line. The impact upon its current citizens has to be taken in to account.

You mean how the US, Canada, Australia and most of the world ended up as they are today?

I'm mixed American Indigenous and European and well aware of the risks of open borders - it's kinda written on my face. That doesn't change that it's a government power that did not always exist and that discussing those powers as rights for governments not to be questioned or complained about as was discussed earlier in this thread has risks too. The idea we should view what the government allows us as a honour is dangerous.

And as someone who left the US and can't get many financial products because of American extraterritorial laws and all the other joys of FATCA, I'm also well aware that government power today has creeped well beyond their own borders. The power creep is not and has never been for our benefit, even when try to justify it that way. There are many ways things have been and could be handled beyond what's going on now, just like issues that brought Brexit it to the forefront could have been dealt with, but the government chose not to.

There are already methods for controling access to public funds that the UK uses (the reason why my spouse gets child benefit and I don't), better ways for people to move without the rights and responsibilities of citizenship, but maybe not as profittable for all those "private partners" and so good at stirring up things for elections. How can they say they're being hard on immigration if they can't add dozens of new rules every year that do absolutely fuckall to the number of immigrants there are?

SchrodingersImmigrant · 15/01/2021 19:18

Current Home Office situation😂

We had to glue special button guards on our keyobards on esc and del when I was young😂 We had few cats.

OP posts:
SchrodingersImmigrant · 15/01/2021 19:19

There should be gif there

OP posts:
SchrodingersImmigrant · 15/01/2021 19:19

😐

OP posts:
ListeningQuietly · 15/01/2021 19:31

Tableflowers
If the the entire population of Brazil decided to move for a change of scenery, it wouldn’t work, despite the best intentions. There is only so many people that could physically live there as there would be no room for any more house.
Nice scare mongering.

Most people would MUCH RATHER make a good living at home.

And if the UK had sensible rules like Austria about residence registration and employment rules and the like
then the services are NOT put under pressure
(because the migrants are paying taxes)

A Syrian farmer earning £800 a year
moves to the UK and becomes a taxi driver
earning £18000 a year
sending half of it back to his family

everybody wins

user1471519931 · 15/01/2021 19:45

@blueberryporridge good to see a fellow sane person calling out that utter twaddle

AnneElliott · 15/01/2021 19:46

ID cards were brought in @SerendipityJane. I still have mine! And used it for travel. They were brought in by the Labour government and removed by the incoming Conservative Government.

You didn't have to have an ID card but the plan was you got one automatically if you applied for a passport. Not sure why there is an issue with them- so many EU countries have them.

TableFlowerss · 15/01/2021 19:54

@ListeningQuietly

Tableflowers If the the entire population of Brazil decided to move for a change of scenery, it wouldn’t work, despite the best intentions. There is only so many people that could physically live there as there would be no room for any more house. Nice scare mongering.

Most people would MUCH RATHER make a good living at home.

And if the UK had sensible rules like Austria about residence registration and employment rules and the like
then the services are NOT put under pressure
(because the migrants are paying taxes)

A Syrian farmer earning £800 a year
moves to the UK and becomes a taxi driver
earning £18000 a year
sending half of it back to his family

everybody wins

But if the choice is anyone is free to live anywhere on the planet, then people will understandably want to move to wealthier counties with jobs on offer (I sure would if I was living in a poverty stricken 3rd world country)

It’s not fair that some people are born in countries where they can’t get hold of clean water, have no prospect of ever making money and live not knowing if they can feed their families.

So it would be right to assume that they would seek a better life, but say 100 million relocating to Europe for example would take its toll....

Open borders to anyone anywhere isn’t ever going to happen.

Chargebeam · 15/01/2021 19:55

Leave it to babdoc to turn any thread into an snp bashing thread.

ListeningQuietly · 15/01/2021 20:00

Table
So it would be right to assume that they would seek a better life, but say 100 million relocating to Europe for example would take its toll....
More scare mongering

Lebanese people would MUCH rather make a good living in Lebanon
Syrians in Syria
Nigerians in Nigeria

purporting that the whole population of a country would move is Faragaist hysteria

The point is that countries like the UK and Germany and the USA
desperately need
young able bodied people to do their manual work
and making them legal taxpayers
rather than smuggled radar avoiding disease spreaders
will make countries stronger

at both ends of the journey

SchrodingersImmigrant · 15/01/2021 20:06

I just want to say I didn't come here for "better life" I came to learn language and somehow liked it here and decided to stay. I even created jobs and hopefully will make more. If I went for better life I would go to a country with better living standards. Sorry, bit of a double handed compliment there.

I don't know why I feel I have to make that clearConfused

OP posts:
percheron67 · 15/01/2021 20:15

I imagine you will be given housing, food, benefits?

TonMoulin · 15/01/2021 20:34

If I had wanted housing and benefits, I would have stayed in my home country frankly.
At least with a chronic illness, I would have had some sort of support...

SchrodingersImmigrant · 15/01/2021 20:36

All the jobs and all the benefits😁

Jk

OP posts:
FuckinGoddess · 15/01/2021 20:57

Oh his yes. We’re all after the jobs AND benefits 😂