Aibu to wonder when will I become an illegal immigrant?

[SchrodingersImmigrant]

🤦🤦🤦🤦
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55672194

EU citizens now have their status online with no physical proof given... It looks like accidental deletion isn't that hard to do.

Aibu to wonder when will I turn from Schrodingersimmigrant to IDontKnowHowButIAmIllegalImmigrantNow ?

Any fellow stealers of all jobs while also takers of all benefits here and having thoughts about this?

@Babdoc

As one of the approximately million English people living in Scotland, I also wonder about our status if (God forbid) the SNP ever achieved their nightmare of independence. The entire million of us would become ex pat immigrants in our own country overnight. There is no way I would ever accept citizenship of the newly created banana republic, so I would become a foreign migrant in my own home.

You know Scotland isn't actually a region of England but is a country in its own right? Are you sure you should be living there if that's how you feel about it?

Moaning about the British government and the Home Office doesn't mean we're "taking it personally". I'm well aware they do not give a flying fuck about me as an individual.

People are not their government or any social system in our lives, but people who go on about the government's rights are supporting the government's use of power as rights. Do you think the Home Office should have the "right" to strip someone of citizenship without the court's involvement? They've had it since 2006 under 'national security'.

There are many people whose names cannot legally be released and the only thing publically known is that their citizenship has been revoked and the person is fighting to get it reinstated. All court cases are behind closed doors. Here's one site discussing some of them. There are likely far more than we'll ever know.

here's another case - a man left stateless because the Home Office decided that his information was wrong. That could be any of us if the Home Office decides we're wrong. I couldn't give my parents birthplace on my application - I don't know it - what if they decide that's enough? What if they decide that my listing multiple names as used from birth is proof enough to revoke - yeah, it sounds weird, but I wasn't raised with the name on my birth certificate and I only learned that at 17, a few weeks before I immigrated and it says to list all names known as. What if they decide I'm lying, what do I have against that if we want to say it's a government's right to decide these things without any other involvement and we're not to complain about the systems they put in place but be 'honoured' to through them as they have turned against us yet?

Remember, immigration controls are relatively new - mostly started in the UK to deal with Jewish refugees in the 1900's and have increased throughout time. Giving government the ability to control people's movements like that is a fairly modern phenomenon. It isn't a "right" for governments to do that, it's how social systems have developed that they have the power to enforce

You had me until this paragraph. You’ll be lucky to find a country in the world that doesn’t have some form of Immigration control!

When Theresa May was Home Secretary
remember that the Hostile Environment was invented by her
the UK Government unilaterally decided that
indefinite Leave to remain did not mean that
Until they got beaten in court.

Non EU folks stopped trusting the Home Office a LONG time ago

You’ll be lucky to find a country in the world that doesn’t have some form of Immigration control!
Doesn't stop it from being relatively modern, though, as a widespread practice.
It wasn't really necessary until the welfare state was introduced and people became worried about who might enjoy the benefits.

I'm very envious of people who can acquire another citizenship through ancestry. I have a grandfather born in Yorkshire, I still don't qualify for British citizenship.

It's not fair to EU nationals to just say, well that's how immigration works. It's not how things worked when they moved here and lived here all these years. People had no reason to think they needed to save every council tax bill and payslip to prove they were here, or get unnecessary health insurance to prove their good character, and all the rest of it. They didn't know they had to start saving up thousands of pounds for a passport.

They're entitled to complain about being held to standards that did not apply to them until now. It's not fair at all.

@ravenmum

You’ll be lucky to find a country in the world that doesn’t have some form of Immigration control! Doesn't stop it from being relatively modern, though, as a widespread practice. It wasn't really necessary until the welfare state was introduced and people became worried about who might enjoy the benefits.

Perhaps you’re right. I’d love to move to the US, Canada or Australia but sadly for me, I wouldn’t ever get a look in 😢 ever....

Sure everyone has immigration control but there's no requirement to be complete bastards about it.

The UK charges insane fees, rejects people for the flimsiest reasons, forces society at large to enforce immigration through the hostile environment, and requires its own citizens to have a certain income to return to the UK with their spouses and children.

People are allowed to complain about all that because it goes far beyond what is really needed and what most countries in Europe do.

It's not fair to EU nationals to just say, well that's how immigration works. It's not how things worked when they moved here and lived here all these years.

And the other way round too for Brits in the EU. I probably wouldn't have moved to a non-EU country as, with all the problems that involves, it wouldn't have been worth my while. However, thanks to Brexit that is the situation I am now in. The fact that we didn't even get to vote is just the icing on the cake.

Exactly

@SchrodingersImmigrant

The thing is that you don't need a citizenship to feel a part of the country and people. We didn't need it. We were home here without it. Now it's kind of forced and it doesn't feel right.

I've got friends who thought this way who didn't get citizenship because they "didn't need to". I think this was naive and short sighted because, if they'd had citizenship of the country where they were prepared to have kids and bring them up, they could have voted in the referendum. Even when we were in the EU they didn't have full rights

[quote Pinkandwhiteblossom]**@Raspberry681* I don’t want British citizenship because I am not, and never will be, British. This despite the fact that by the time I die I will have lived here for the majority of my life, have two British (albeit dual nationals) children and a British husband. The fact that I am not, and never will be, considered* British was confirmed to me in June 2016 by the majority of the British people.

So frankly, anyone expecting me to spend thousands for a document that makes me a British citizen can fuck off.[/quote]
Oh @Pinkandwhiteblossom, the last line of your post really made me lol.

I'd feel exactly the same if I was in your shoes. And tbh, I'm so ashamed of the level of xenophobia in the UK that I'm tempted to apply for Iris citizenship. It's only sheer inertia that's stopping me, tbh, that and the fact that I don't know where either of my Irish GPs were born, or even when, in the case of GF. And it was in the 1890s, before these things were very organised.

if they'd had citizenship of the country where they were prepared to have kids and bring them up, they could have voted in the referendum. Even when we were in the EU they didn't have full rights
But the UK
unlike most other countries
takes away the voting rights of it citizens if they move overseas

so a double hit

Even when we were in the EU they didn't have full rights

No, but I didn't have to worry about someone's cat accidentally pressing delete (we all know they do!) and rendering me illegal basically.

www.mortgagesolutions.co.uk/news/2021/01/12/natwest-stops-new-lending-to-customers-without-confirmed-settlement-status/?utm_source=customsell&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ms-last-alert-12121-1610474222&fbclid=IwAR1bQK3S1oFzY6UgNRdMEe-IY7145yN_Jhn60F9gcjl99SpXI45KAnU4YbI

"Brokers must include a copy of the customer’s settled or pre-settled decision letter as part of application packaging."

I wonder if they mean the pdf letter i got which states "This letter is not proof of your status in the UK"🤷🏻🤦😂

This all will just NOT end well🤷🏻

@Raspberry681so you actually claimed Italian citizenship by descent?
Not because you spent decades of your life in Italy, paid taxes there and your children are Italian?

You can get Italian citizenship in many ways, including by marrying a national who doesn't live in Italy (after about 3 years of marriage). Or through your grandparents. UK laws are more stringent than that, you cannot apply unless you live here.

Yes DH was asked to prove settled status for something official recently and they said to just send the decision letter, the one that says it's not proof of settled status

It's all so dumb

I just see it as a slap to the face from the British public. I was educated here, I’ve lived here, I speak the language better than many a native, my child is British, and now I have to prove that I have the right to live in my own home 😂😂😂

Fucking horrendous.

Goddess
I was asked for proof that I spoke English
(over and above my O Levels, A Levels, BSc and professional qualification certificates)

Really? I thought that if you have degree from UK you don't have to do the English test😐

@SchrodingersImmigrant

Really? I thought that if you have degree from UK you don't have to do the English test😐

I got my UK papers quite early on in Theresa May's regime. I suspect they changed the rules after folks like me kicked off

(they also gave me a hard time for no exit stamps in my passports, even though it was UK policy NOT TO DO exit stamps)

The Life in the UK test was a shambles as well
because the British staff at the centre admitted that none of them passed it when they tried it for fun

Maaaan. So that's 2 lots of cost for English test🙄

Wait! Good news (for me lol)
www.gov.uk/english-language/degrees-in-english

As one of the approximately million English people living in Scotland, I also wonder about our status if (God forbid) the SNP ever achieved their nightmare of independence.
The entire million of us would become ex pat immigrants in our own country overnight. There is no way I would ever accept citizenship of the newly created banana republic, so I would become a foreign migrant in my own home.

Oh for goodness sake, what absolute rubbish. Have you not seen that the SNP welcomes immigrants to Scotland. Many SNP supporters are married to English people (including myself) and there are lots of English SNP members too. If you live in Scotland, the SNP regards you as being Scottish.

You had me until this paragraph. You’ll be lucky to find a country in the world that doesn’t have some form of Immigration control!

Now, in 2021, yes. It wasn't always - it began in many countries, including the UK, as a way to deal with influx of refugees they found undesirable a bit over a hundred years ago that has creeped up more and more over the years and many countries have followed those examples. There were other methods of population control and deciding who is a citizen, but 'immigration control' is a recent development historically and socially. Now we have countries, starting with the US, that want to monitor the bank accounts and going ons of citizens who leave -- like the previous analogy, it's like a really bad ex who won't leave you alone.

It's a government power that they can through force enact, but discussing it as a right puts it into the same realm socially as the right to a fair trial (while the UK has indefinite detention centres) or the right to freedom of expression. I'm wary of anything that puts the government or any social system's power in the same way as we discussing hard fought for individual protections, because the former is often used to ignore the latter. Power will do anything to make itself seem justified.

It's not fair to EU nationals to just say, well that's how immigration works. It's not how things worked when they moved here and lived here all these years.

This is also true of non-EU national residents. I got ILR in '06 - Life in the UK test didn't exist. BRP didn't exist - once you had ILR, you were done and safe, now that's changed too. Now we have to keep proving our residency and pay to regularly update our biometrics and there is a really odd issue that while BRP are meant to last a decade, pretty much everyone has the same expiration date on their card because apparently the technology in them won't be good anymore after the 31st of December 2024. I got my most recent BRP last February, same date on it as the one I had before -- and get this, they're still trying to blame the EU for it even for cards that came out after we left, even after they raised the price and brought in "private partners". It's ridiculous.

Didn't think in '06 that I'd still be paying to keep the rights that I was meant to have 'earned' that year with my ILR. That wasn't how things worked and we're not as psychic as some like to think we are. I've lost count of the times I've been told I'm not allowed to complain because, as a non-EU migrant, I "knew what I was getting into". Everyone's being fucked over, it's not an honour, it's a racket but for now, we've got to deal with it.