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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Aibu to wonder when will I become an illegal immigrant?

212 replies

SchrodingersImmigrant · 15/01/2021 09:29

🤦🤦🤦🤦
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55672194

EU citizens now have their status online with no physical proof given... It looks like accidental deletion isn't that hard to do.

Aibu to wonder when will I turn from Schrodingersimmigrant to IDontKnowHowButIAmIllegalImmigrantNow ?

Any fellow stealers of all jobs while also takers of all benefits here and having thoughts about this?

OP posts:
ListeningQuietly · 15/01/2021 17:58

Babbles
If you still have your old passport with the ILR in it, UK Border agents have to accept it.
They will be grumpy
but the word "indefinite" has been tested in court WinkSmile

piscis · 15/01/2021 18:02

I am EU. I am not worried, surely you still would have all the papers or anything needed to prove that you've been here working for over 5 years?

lightand · 15/01/2021 18:02

We now live in a very changeable world.

Best to dot I's and cross T's.
We dont know what is coming.

ListeningQuietly · 15/01/2021 18:06

@piscis

I am EU. I am not worried, surely you still would have all the papers or anything needed to prove that you've been here working for over 5 years?
See up thread. Payslips were not treated as proof of being in the UK even when the payslips were issued by the Home Office

it is UNBELIEVABLY hard to prove you have been somewhere
without passport border stamps
or bank statements showing regular cashpoint withdrawals

SchrodingersImmigrant · 15/01/2021 18:06

@piscis

I am EU. I am not worried, surely you still would have all the papers or anything needed to prove that you've been here working for over 5 years?
Well I won't have them with me if I travel. Ryanair is strict on baggage weight😂 I also won't have them with me if I need to provd it elsewhere and online system fail.

I also may not know about it for some period of time. I don't think they will send a notification "Soz, deleted you. Apply again". Hence being here and "breaking" their immigration rules.

Too many options for it to go wrong through no fault of our own. Like, I am not scared, just HmmConfused about how stupid this is. Especially after Windrush🤷🏻

OP posts:
HouseofBrieandBanter · 15/01/2021 18:12

I would screenshot everything (the e-mail, the link, the page that opens when you click the link etc)

PurplePansy05 · 15/01/2021 18:16

I am so confused.
Firstly, what is a CSI?
Secondly, I am pretty sure a biometric permit isn't required. Where is this requirement coming from?
Thirdly, have you not had a letter from the Home Office confirming your settled status? Obviously this is a document to keep safe and rely on in the event they lose their records (which is perfectly conceivable).

TonMoulin · 15/01/2021 18:16

@piscis

I am EU. I am not worried, surely you still would have all the papers or anything needed to prove that you've been here working for over 5 years?
You have never needed to prove that you had been working for settled status. Just that you were in the U.K.

You also didn’t need to send docs. I didn’t, it was all. done on checking HMRC record.

So no I don’t have ‘all the docs’

TonMoulin · 15/01/2021 18:18

@PurplePansy05

I am so confused. Firstly, what is a CSI? Secondly, I am pretty sure a biometric permit isn't required. Where is this requirement coming from? Thirdly, have you not had a letter from the Home Office confirming your settled status? Obviously this is a document to keep safe and rely on in the event they lose their records (which is perfectly conceivable).
A document from the HO? Hahaha

No. There has never been any letter at all from them. Just a crappy email stating it can’t be used as a proof

piscis · 15/01/2021 18:20

But why will you need anything when travelling? As an EU citizen you are still allowed to come to the UK as a tourist, what's the problem with travel? You arrive at the UK Border with your Italian/french passport or whatever and you don't need to prove you live here because you can be a tourist, no visas or nothing of the sort is needed.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 15/01/2021 18:21

@PurplePansy05
CSI is comprehensive sickness insurance.
I had a letter which literally states it is not proof. Either way, again. If it's accidentally deleted, my data, how will I know?
No, biometric card is not only not a requirement, it's also simply not available to EU.

We are supposed to trust HO that all will be ok😁

OP posts:
ListeningQuietly · 15/01/2021 18:22

@piscis

But why will you need anything when travelling? As an EU citizen you are still allowed to come to the UK as a tourist, what's the problem with travel? You arrive at the UK Border with your Italian/french passport or whatever and you don't need to prove you live here because you can be a tourist, no visas or nothing of the sort is needed.
EU Citizens will now be treated the same way UKBA treats the rest of the world.

Its not nice.

Nobody has the "right" to enter.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 15/01/2021 18:26

@TonMoulin I actually had to send council tax bills because their system couldn't find everything from NIN🤦 Apparently it was a common problem

OP posts:
TableFlowerss · 15/01/2021 18:30

@BiBabbles

You had me until this paragraph. You’ll be lucky to find a country in the world that doesn’t have some form of Immigration control!

Now, in 2021, yes. It wasn't always - it began in many countries, including the UK, as a way to deal with influx of refugees they found undesirable a bit over a hundred years ago that has creeped up more and more over the years and many countries have followed those examples. There were other methods of population control and deciding who is a citizen, but 'immigration control' is a recent development historically and socially. Now we have countries, starting with the US, that want to monitor the bank accounts and going ons of citizens who leave -- like the previous analogy, it's like a really bad ex who won't leave you alone.

It's a government power that they can through force enact, but discussing it as a right puts it into the same realm socially as the right to a fair trial (while the UK has indefinite detention centres) or the right to freedom of expression. I'm wary of anything that puts the government or any social system's power in the same way as we discussing hard fought for individual protections, because the former is often used to ignore the latter. Power will do anything to make itself seem justified.

It's not fair to EU nationals to just say, well that's how immigration works. It's not how things worked when they moved here and lived here all these years.

This is also true of non-EU national residents. I got ILR in '06 - Life in the UK test didn't exist. BRP didn't exist - once you had ILR, you were done and safe, now that's changed too. Now we have to keep proving our residency and pay to regularly update our biometrics and there is a really odd issue that while BRP are meant to last a decade, pretty much everyone has the same expiration date on their card because apparently the technology in them won't be good anymore after the 31st of December 2024. I got my most recent BRP last February, same date on it as the one I had before -- and get this, they're still trying to blame the EU for it even for cards that came out after we left, even after they raised the price and brought in "private partners". It's ridiculous.

Didn't think in '06 that I'd still be paying to keep the rights that I was meant to have 'earned' that year with my ILR. That wasn't how things worked and we're not as psychic as some like to think we are. I've lost count of the times I've been told I'm not allowed to complain because, as a non-EU migrant, I "knew what I was getting into". Everyone's being fucked over, it's not an honour, it's a racket but for now, we've got to deal with it.

I don’t disagree that it’s a form of control, but that’s how governments throughout the world work. They decide the rules, whether we agree with them or not. We think we have a day but ultimately the power is with them.

I feel sorry for people that have made a life here and settled and are forced to ether apply for citizenship and the like or face the worry that they could be deported. That can’t be a nice way to live with that weight on your shoulders especially if you have family here.

I do however think there needs to be some kind of border control to reside in countries. They also have to think of the standard of living of their own citizens above all else. If they had opened borders for anyone from anywhere they would soon be overwhelmed.

I’m taking about the US for example and if they opened their borders now and there was no immigration control at all, very soon they would have millions upon millions of people moving there. Great for those seeking a better life, but equally where do you draw the line. The impact upon its current citizens has to be taken in to account.

So what’s great for one set of people isn’t necessarily great for others. That’s why they can pick and chose who they want. Sadly.... it would never be me Confused

SchrodingersImmigrant · 15/01/2021 18:30

I do carry printouts of the status lage btw😂 Which are for nothing, but a placebo effect peace of mind. I am generally keeper of all paperwork and triple copy, but there is a difference between only official proof being somewhere online and having physical card I can keep on me.

OP posts:
PurplePansy05 · 15/01/2021 18:32

@SchrodingersImmigrant Re the letter, yes I know, but it's virtually impossible you'd have had it without being successfully granted SS so if they lose your electronic record I'm sure you'd be able to rely on it to force them to recover your records. Re losing data, well, I guess there are ways of finding out most likely at the point of law enforcement, maybe there are border checks now, I don't know? HMRC, change of employment? I'm sure there will be options to find out, probably not in the most convenient way!

Sorry I have just googled CSI before your response, I should have just done it before Blush My brain has switched off.

piscis · 15/01/2021 18:37

As far as I know EU citizens can come to the UK as tourists with their passports, that's all they need. That's in normal circumstances, not sure how it is at the moment with the Covid situation.

ListeningQuietly · 15/01/2021 18:39

Tableflowers
They also have to think of the standard of living of their own citizens above all else. If they had opened borders for anyone from anywhere they would soon be overwhelmed.
In the words of The Economist magazine
let them in and let them work

No benefits for migrants in the first three years
but the automatic right for Migrants and Refugees to earn a living right away.

With proper employment protections
(minimum wage, sick pay, holiday pay, the money for enforcement)
everybody benefits.
The the people smugglers are out of a job.
The workshy can go back whence they came.
Those who want to better themselves can do so.

Falafels all round

ListeningQuietly · 15/01/2021 18:39

@piscis

As far as I know EU citizens can come to the UK as tourists with their passports, that's all they need. That's in normal circumstances, not sure how it is at the moment with the Covid situation.
not since 1st January EU = rest of world
SchrodingersImmigrant · 15/01/2021 18:40

Ah don't worry. Most of us had to google csi after doing "The What?"😂

After having experience with home office being very unhelpful and having to apply again for EEA family member residence card thety failed to deliver after status being approived, I don't think it would be that simple.
We had to do the whole application again and again wait months for decision! Even though it was approved week prior!

Well that now actually showed me that it's a same shit😂 Only difference is that you are aware if the issue, hence not giving them chance to tell you "You were breaking immigration laws so we are not granting you status now"🤔

OP posts:
PurplePansy05 · 15/01/2021 18:41

I think HO must be keeping a record of movements of EU citizens from 1 Jan 2021 because there's a possibility of losing SS after 5 years outside of the UK, so I suspect this may be one way of finding out if the records got lost - if there are issues with border control. Obviously not something anyone should ever go through!

SchrodingersImmigrant · 15/01/2021 18:44

I am not moaning just about border control btw. Employers get very heavily fined if they employ illegal worker. Which means that if there are issues with proof, you cannot gain employment. Or rent a house since they need something too. Neither should be going by a letter stating it's not a proof.

It's the overall thing and risk.

OP posts:
SchrodingersImmigrant · 15/01/2021 18:45

I just want a valid card so if I lose it it's my own fault 😂
You know. Being in control somewhat

OP posts:
PurplePansy05 · 15/01/2021 18:49

I know. I think they've figurer out they'd struggle with the cards for that exact reason, the possibility of losing the status. I think issuing them on a renewable 5 year basis is beyond HO ability tbh 😂 But I think the way to go about it is to nag local MPs to get this sorted, I agree in principle, there should be a document issued and this should be raised in Parliament. Maybe a petition?

ListeningQuietly · 15/01/2021 18:50

@SchrodingersImmigrant

I just want a valid card so if I lose it it's my own fault 😂 You know. Being in control somewhat
Or even just a sodding big stamp on one page of your passport that confirms it ....

Has to be said the UK "ILR" stamps were spectacularly variable and shit
i2.wp.com/www.right2rent.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Expired-evidence-of-ILR.jpg