Aibu to wonder when will I become an illegal immigrant?

[SchrodingersImmigrant]

🤦🤦🤦🤦
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55672194

EU citizens now have their status online with no physical proof given... It looks like accidental deletion isn't that hard to do.

Aibu to wonder when will I turn from Schrodingersimmigrant to IDontKnowHowButIAmIllegalImmigrantNow ?

Any fellow stealers of all jobs while also takers of all benefits here and having thoughts about this?

I'd heard something about these online documents, though, SI, and I'd feel just as uncomfortable as you. Glad to have my ID card.

It is ridiculous. And obviously very easy to "lose".

I might have to become religious so I can pray every time I cross border, apply for job or moetgage etc that Home Office has better IT and servers than Mumsnet😐

Which btw, I don't think they do😂

They use Amazon Web Services. Like, for instance, Parler.

I dont know everything there is to know about this subject.

But plenty of people in plenty of countries put in the hard work[both paperwork and staying in a country for a significant number of years[and paying their taxes] to get their citizenship of that country]].

Hard work, like anything else that is worthwhile, is.

@Darklingthrush Oh right! Well, in my case, it was very arduous because my heritage went back a long way and there were various confusing breadcrumbs left by my ancestors that I had to explain to the consulate for my application to make sense. And they weren't particularly sympathetic / make things easy for me. One lady interviewing me brought up various things such as why my Italian wasn't very good, why the family hadn't held onto the culture etc, even though it wasn't relevant to my legal status (which was simply about establishing that I was related to x ancestor). But I tried not to take it personally and just accepted it for what it was.

It is crap that it's hard to apply for U.K. citizenship but my point was, if you want it then I guess you just have to endure it? And, from my perspective, I voted Remain however I respect that a country has the right to set rules about citizenship if people want the full benefits of living there.

I can't believe Amazon has info not only about what toothpaste I use and that I am sometimes not able to do simple math, but also has my immigration status. 😂

@SchrodingersImmigrant, as a fellow immigrant that has many issues with the 'online' side of things, I get you.....

Personally, that means the UK isn't home anymore (even though it has been for the last 20 years). Its somewhere I live, with the assumption i'll be moving out and/or can be kicked out at any time.

And I agree with @Pinkandwhiteblossom. The referendum results and the subsequent attitude of people towards me and my (born in britain and british) children has completely put me off ever being british. If I was doing that, it would be only as a way to get a piece of paper. But I would be either grateful or respectful of that citizenship.

@lightand

I dont know everything there is to know about this subject.

But plenty of people in plenty of countries put in the hard work[both paperwork and staying in a country for a significant number of years[and paying their taxes] to get their citizenship of that country]].

Hard work, like anything else that is worthwhile, is.

Very different situation though.

When people move to a country where there is a visa, they need to have fulfil certain criteria dn then work towards citizenship, they are a clear WISH to stay in that country.

EU citizens are in a different category. They need to prove anything at all. I know I never planned to be in the UK in the first place (I just happened to spend a few months here and meet H). It wasn't my dream.
But more importantly, it was like moving to a different part of my own country. The EU being the 'country' iyswim. I didnt feel like a foreigner until Brexit happened.

Thsi is completely different situation @Raspberry681. You are Italian obviously. You were basically just getting it confirmed, with the added headache. You have Italian lineage.

It's different for someone who doesn't have British lineage, is a foreigner and sometimes is reminded of it by people, lives like a good member of the British society, pays their dues and then... Gets fucked in the arse without so much so as a cheap lube.

@SchrodingersImmigrant, nice way to put it

I was born British but still feel as if my right to live in the UK could be questioned!

When I researched into my ancestry, half the family were put down in the 1911 census as "naturalised". I wonder if you'll be able to get yourself on the next census as "settled"? The next one in England and Wales is 21 March 2021.

Ooooh i am going to put myself as something special. 😂 That might be an interesting census. I did the 2011 one but can't remember what I ticked.

@ravenmum I’m white, and a native English speaker so abuse would be a strong word. But I certainly experience ‘othering’ and will never fully culturally fit. I don’t really notice it on the day to day anymore as I have some very long standing and dear friends here and obviously married someone British. But I do notice it when I’m either surrounded by people from or am actually in my own country.

@ravenmum have you looked into it? maybe you could get another on top of the German one😁 Just in case.

It's a shame my DH can't get my native country's one just based on marriage. No shengen visa needed then! (I obviously understand why it would be an issue if it was THAT easy, but one can dream😁)

@SchrodingersImmigrant

I'm not saying it isn't a pain to get U.K. citizenship if you want it to live here stress free. I wish you the best of luck and a smooth application. My point is that it seems to be a ball ache wherever you want to do it - yes, my application should have been very straightforward as in actual fact, my parent's application for citizenship had been approved before i put mine in! But I still had to show my lineage going all the way back and then endure interviews including being grilled on whether I really wanted the citizenship or not, or whether I was 'undeserving' because my Italian wasn't very good (even though that was irrelevant legally). In my view, it was best to not take it personally and see the process as a means to an end and not a reflection on a whole nation.

I can see how needing the citizenship would make it more stressful but my point is that I think it's just better not to take it personally.

@TonMoulin
I take your point and I agree.

They need to prove anything at all.
I presume you mean they dont need to prove anything at all.
I think people in the situation the op is talking about are right be to be concerned, and need to act accordingly.
I will go back to the beginning of the thread, and read it again with fresh eyes and perspective.

Brits moan about everything - including about moaning. They do it even more when it comes to government - my first meal here in the UK involved someone in the pub finding out I'd just arrived followed by a long very Northumbrian conversation to make sure I knew just how awful Thatcher was and generally how shite British politicians are to working people. We're just integrating into British society...

There is a bit of a difference between 'a country gets to set the rules' and changing the rules over 170 times in the last twenty years (not including fee changes which aren't recorded in the statement of changes) and retroactively applying changes to those already here. The application costs listed aren't the only ones involved, and those who will need documents translated or sent over from abroad or require solicitors will obviously have extra costs. I had to pay over £300 just to change a line on my BRP to appease our Home Office and their "private partners", I had to prove where I've lived for every month of my adult life because of a law change to be able to get back the rights I'd already had with ILR.

That's the issue - people's rights have been changed and they're worried it's going to happen again. It could happen even if we get citizenship - some people have had theirs revoked. No amount of hard work changes the authority people keep giving the government. Remember, immigration controls are relatively new - mostly started in the UK to deal with Jewish refugees in the 1900's and have increased throughout time. Giving government the ability to control people's movements like that is a fairly modern phenomenon. It isn't a "right" for governments to do that, it's how social systems have developed that they have the power to enforce.

Oh, and my light-skin British born children are regularly told by their classmates that their accent and having an immigrant parent means they aren't British, so my much darker, much twangier self hasn't a chance. I know getting a legal document isn't going to change how many people see me, I accept that as part of my reality. I've spent years (it's now over 4 years since I started going for citizenship) trying to reduce the risks to my family of further costs and issues. I can't guarantee it - it could change at any time and people will just go "well, you knew what you were getting into when you immigrated" and roll on about government's rights. They have none, they just have power and systemic controls. Those aren't the same thing.

I think it was "they didn't need to prove anything". Now we do. Employers need status, banks will wnat it, estate agents. Before you just showed your passport or a national ID (the latter usually with added argument that it's absolutely a freaking valid document😂) and that was it. Now you have to get link, send link and hope for the best.

I don't think wanting a card, a physical card, is too much, but HO disagrees.

@Pinkandwhiteblossom I am the same colour as the locals too, so also have an easier time of it as an immigrant now my accent doesn't give me away immediately. I do experience "othering", but I know I enjoy being foreign, too, when people are positive about it, so I can't really complain too loudly when the less pleasant people notice too :)

@SchrodingersImmigrant Not from the naturalised Russians I dont think - could be Irish via my grandad, though. I don't need to now - but who knows how useful these things might be in future!

You're not wrong OP. I would feel very vulnerable without a concrete document to show (well...not a concrete one but you know what I mean!)

@BiBabbles

Regarding the revocation of citizenship - who has this happened to? I was only aware of it happening to terrorists with dual citizenship

I know getting a legal document isn't going to change how many people see me, I accept that as part of my reality.
At the last elections, the local right-wing party had an ad campaign with a picture of a pregnant white woman, saying something along the lines of "We make new citizens ourselves" (meaning: we don't want them dirty immigrants coming over here, having children, blah de blah). I looked at it and thought "Bad luck if that's how you feel, because I AM a new citizen, and you couldn't stop me". Having the paperwork might not change others' minds, but it does change reality.

It’s the fact the British government just proved how ruthless it can be to get its own way. Inc telling someone who had never been to a country that it was their home country and they should go back there (and yes I know many people won’t see it like this)

Add Windrush to that and you have the perfect storm of no one trusting that the government will ever have an ounce of decency

[quote Raspberry681]@BiBabbles

Regarding the revocation of citizenship - who has this happened to? I was only aware of it happening to terrorists with dual citizenship [/quote]
Nope. They can now leave you stateless.
HO doesn't give data on details but it's hundreds of people.