To never feel comfortable doing this

[Frickinfreezinginthishouse]

I’m in another country and we’re due to go into full lockdown this week. I’m at home alone with my toddler and dog, Dp at work 8-6. Aside from the garden I’ll need you get out with my Dd and dog. Next to our house we have woods leading down to the beach. I love to walk through these when Dp is around but whenever I take just Dd and our dog I feel really uneasy and just want to get back. As we won’t be allowed to drive to place, this is our only place to walk, aside from around busy roads near our home, which is hard with both Dd and our dog, who needs to be off the lead.
Does anyone else walk in deserted places, would you feel uneasy or do you think it’s fairly safe with Dd and our dog?

I regularly walk through woods and countryside on my own or with my baby. In the day time, it would never occur to me to be scared. So if I were you, I’m fairly sure I would just go for it.

That said, I don’t know what your area is like or what circumstances you may have that could make you more cautious.

@MilkMoon

Many people feel more scared when they have a child as they have someone they love very much to protect and trying to get away with a child adds a different dimension.

I'm always a bit wth about parents who escape a house fire with their children still inside. It must be a given once you get out you rarely get back in and I'd rather die trying to save them than leave them to die tbh.

Yes, you're absolutely right -- those of us who happily walk with our small children in deserted rural areas without imagining murderers lurking behind bushes just don't love those children enough, and would definitely save ourselves first in a house fire.

That's not what I said at all but carry on trying to find something to complain about.

I know what you mean OP. We live right by a lovely rural walk that at times is in heavy wooded areas. It’s beautiful and secluded. There are times when I’m walking it alone I feel really uneasy. The path narrows and if you come across some one you need to step in and let them pass and occasionally I feel uneasy and on edge. I always feel a bit silly about it but can’t shake this feeling that if I come across a psycho killer there’s no where to run and no one would hear me scream.

I don’t have a nervous disposition either so there’s no rational reason for me to feel this way.

I didn't like The Gift of Fear at all, I found it very repetitive and the writer doesn't half like to big himself up. There was very little practical advice, just different stories to emphasise his point of trusting your instincts.
I got much better advice from my DD who does Krav maga, things like if they grab your hair, put your hands on top their hands and press down so they cant pull, then knee them in the balls.
Twists and turns to escape holds, then how to attack rather than just defend yourself.

How would analysing your response to other people’s behaviour to discern signs of future violence — which I agree is very valuable — be of any use in a situation where no other people are ever present, and there is no threat

Because the entire book is about uplifting women, giving them confidence in situations that they dont feel confident in by using "the gift of fear". It also looks at women who have been victims of violence in the past and how they have used what they have learnt to recover, heal, and go forward into unfamiliar situations with confidence again.
I think this would be enormously helpful to the OP who is feeling confident.

I don't understand why you are being so weirdly oppositional about this, especially considering you havent even read the bloody book!!
If you havent read it, you really really cannot comment on its use for anyone.

*that should be feeling unconfident

@Serin

I didn't like The Gift of Fear at all, I found it very repetitive and the writer doesn't half like to big himself up. There was very little practical advice, just different stories to emphasise his point of trusting your instincts. I got much better advice from my DD who does Krav maga, things like if they grab your hair, put your hands on top their hands and press down so they cant pull, then knee them in the balls. Twists and turns to escape holds, then how to attack rather than just defend yourself.

I respect that.

At least youve actually read the book and therefore can make informed comments on it!
Obviously, not every book is for everyone but lots of people do find it useful

I find it interesting that you feel more comfortable with DP there. Do you see people lurking when you go with him and think that they would attack if it weren't for him there?

Irrational fear is understandable but try to rationalise and think logically.

This would-be attacker would need to be lurking in woods where there is almost never anyone in the hopes that someone (a lone female preferably) might come by.
First, that is unlikely- those sorts of attackers tend to cruise well frequented routes but that have poor lighting and easy areas of seclusion on them that they can pull you onto...but ok lets imagine they are there waiting all day on the offchance.
Then you show up. They had planned on attacking a lone female but now they have to take on a woman fighting back, a screaming toddler and a dog that they hadn't prepared for. This mythical attacker sounds pretty stupid if they were to do that.

I'm not saying its impossible, but try and be reasonable with yourself. and on top of that take some precuations even if it is to just make yourself feel better.

My suggestions would include- take some form of protection with you (spray or something) and don't stick to the same routine, same time every day etc so that you are predictable and someone might easily pick up your patterns.
If you have phone reception there can you arrange to always call someone (your mother or something) as you walk through so that you are audibly on the phone and someone clearly knows where you are and could raise the alarm.

Personally I would never put myself in a situation where I felt uneasy or at risk. For example I wouldn’t walk home from a friends house at night even if I lived 5 minutes away. Some people wander around in the dark without fear. I also am like you I live nearby a forest and it’s really vast and I know mums who walk alone there or with their kids all the time but I always worry about being too far away from people.

Even if it’s your only option don’t go if you don’t feel safe. Save those walks for weekends with your dp

I like what my friend does, she has friendly dogs - but if a lone male approaches she warns them: “I shouldn’t go near them if I were you” (labrador types 😂)

Another friend keeps her (friendly) labradors inside the house - barking continuously as a deterrent - when unexpected people turn up at the gates. It gives callers the message that there are dogs present - but being labradors they would otherwise rush out to be petted!

I have strategies in other european countries - for example I carry a plastic whistle on a shoelace in my rucksack as backup.

In more extreme situations I take to wearing military camouflage accessories - say a scarf, it’s a surprising effective deterrent (not applicable in your situation though)

Something else could be a piece of flourescent official looking clothing, as simple as a cross-body strap or bag to “look authoritative” ..just to give a subtle message.

Sorry, that all sounds overkill as I read it back!

I don’t live my life in fear at all, but blimey....all these posters saying it won’t happen! It does happen and mainly to women. That’s why we are cautious and rightly so. Remembering also Lin Russell who was attacked - along with her two girls and small dog - whilst walking through remote fields in broad daylight.

@AlexisCarringtonColbyDexter

How would analysing your response to other people’s behaviour to discern signs of future violence — which I agree is very valuable — be of any use in a situation where no other people are ever present, and there is no threat

Because the entire book is about uplifting women, giving them confidence in situations that they dont feel confident in by using "the gift of fear". It also looks at women who have been victims of violence in the past and how they have used what they have learnt to recover, heal, and go forward into unfamiliar situations with confidence again.
I think this would be enormously helpful to the OP who is feeling confident.

I don't understand why you are being so weirdly oppositional about this, especially considering you havent even read the bloody book!!
If you havent read it, you really really cannot comment on its use for anyone.

I’m being ‘oppositional’ because you appear to be encouraging the OP in baseless fears which are unnecessarily restricting her quality of life, particularly during lockdown where she either stays in her garden, walks on busy roads (which are likely to be far more dangerous to a young child and a dog) or walks in these woods, next door to her house.

@LilMidge01 No, I just feel totally relaxed and free when it’s all of us together 🤷🏻‍♀️

Ideally I’d like a small gun, I’m actually serious, I’d only threaten it or shoot in the leg if I absolutely had to

Ok, I’ve just read about the three year old girl a pp mentioned, wish I hadn’t, terrifying 🥲
Pretty much confirmed it for me, we’re going to be in lots this lockdown.

This is why self defence should be taught to young women in school. We are vulnerable, especially with children, and its essential to know how to defend yourself. As a pp said, krav maga is an excellent way to escape holds or get in a swift kick to the balls. Put some videos on YouTube and practise on your dp! 😂 Seriously though, if you know how to defend yourself, you will feel much more confident in isolated areas.

I think it's very likely that you could walk there without issue 10,000 times. The risks we imagine are not often the ones that actually happen. I think there is two approaches

1. listen to your discomfort, and the logical fact that being isolated makes it a risk, and decide its not worth the risk
2. Accept that it is not risk free, but that you don't want to be restricted by the fear of something that may not ever happen. (Flashing or being made to feel uncomfortable is sadly more likely) Then practice going down there or through there more frequently, let your daughter tarry and play and 'befriend' the place and the fact that you can't control every risk and don't want to be restricted. (I tend towards 2, but I do also listen to my instincts a lot. My dd likes to run and the path is very busy but there has been an incident there recently - I talked to her about it but we still run there, but I do feel uneasy.)

@ScrapThatThen What happened?

kumquat: As a pp said, krav maga is an excellent way to escape holds or get in a swift kick to the balls. Put some videos on YouTube and practise on your dp! 😂 Seriously though, if you know how to defend yourself, you will feel much more confident in isolated areas.

If you are on your own with a toddler, you might be carrying the toddler. You put the toddler down first? Try kicking someone in the balls whilst holding something precious. So you succeed, he is temporarily disabled. You run with said child. Child cannot keep up. You carry child, slows you down. Attacker catches up - this time, he is much more aggravated having been kicked in the nuts. He catches you, catches your toddler. Threatens to harm toddler. You get into the van with him with toddler ...

There is no one else around for miles to hear you or your toddler scream.

I want to see how 'krav maga' self-defence gets you out of this one. That only works if it buys you enough time to get somewhere safe. There is nowhere safe for miles. Self-defence is not a super strategy in this situation. The best strategy is not to get in this situation in the first place.

Scrap: My dd likes to run and the path is very busy

This is not an isolated area then. It is a much lesser risk if there are other people around.

Ideally I’d like a small gun, I’m actually serious, I’d only threaten it or shoot in the leg if I absolutely had to

What if you hesitate or miss and he grabs the gun from you? Alternatively, he grabs your child. Would you shoot him at the risk of shooting the child accidentally? He asks you to drop the weapon and he picks it up. He now has the child and your gun. That is very convenient for him that you brought the gun. Any weapon which a woman uses can be used against her.

Have you checked the local police records for the area? Surely you wouldn’t have bought a house somewhere dangerous? Can you post on a local fb group and get local knowledge? It seems a shame that you live in fear so close to beautiful natural.

@RoSEbuds6 No it’s not a dangerous area, nowhere where we are is really, but a weirdo can be anywhere, right? In a nice, affluent area where there’s generally low crime, you can still get a crazy that could come along 🤷🏻‍♀️

I would trust your instincts OP, you won't enjoy it anyway if you're on edge.

I think it's a bit unfair to say that OP's fears are irrational. I agree that the risk is probably very small, but I also think that the potential outcome is more likely to be dire in a secluded area than if you were somewhere where people could hear you.

I was grabbed in a secluded area by a man. I was walking over a bridge in a wooded area and when I got to the bottom of the steps two men stepped out and one of them grabbed me and tried to pull me into the trees. I was extremely lucky to get away, I only managed to because they were both completely plastered and I wriggled free and ran. There is absolutely nothing on earth like that fear.

I think it's about balancing risks and the here's no right answer, it depends on what you consider an acceptable level of risk for the payoff. You could decide that it's such a small risk that the benefit of enjoying the woods far outweighs it, and I can understand that. After my experience, i don't think that the risk of something like that is worth taking and I'd rather feel safe than have the benefit of the countryside walk on my own.

It's not fair that fear of assault stops women from enjoying total freedom, but I also don't think it's fair to dismiss those fears as hysteria when these things actually DO happen.

I’ve not rtft, but I wonder if it’s possible that the area will get any busier with lockdown? When we went into lockdown last year, my regular dog walk was suddenly very busy with families with young children. Alternatively is there anyone you could walk with? You may be very isolated of course.

[quote Frickinfreezinginthishouse]@Ohalrightthen Just being in the middle of the woods with no one around and possible weirdos 🤷🏻‍♀️[/quote]
Totally normal reaction. I feel uneasy walking through woods with my DS (and dog) so I avoid doing it. I would drive somewhere (the next nearest safest point) and walk my DC and dog there.

Your families safety comes first. Also, what's the point in going somewhere that makes you feel uneasy. The walk is suppose to make you feel better, not worse.