To think closing nurseries would be disastrous?

[Purgatory2021]

I'm seeing it discussed left right and centre, my post was prompted by television this morning.

For many reasons (none selfish) I think it would be disastrous, but the one that stands out to me the most is people's ability to work.

I'm sure there will be plenty of nurses/HCP's/important key workers who rely on nursery to be able to do their jobs.

Not everybody has family that can step in.

Older primary aged children and secondary age children can fend for themselves to a degree if push came to shove, but you can't do the same with toddlers and babies.

@Buddytheelf85

Is there any evidence of spread in nurseries/pre schools though? Surely that is the point. There was not one case last term in my child’s pre school. This is what never seems to be considered.

Yes, my son’s nursery is the same. Not one case from June until now (touch wood). As I understand it, the D of E has said that there is no evidence of nurseries being a significant source of transmission. But the response to that is that the data on transmission in nurseries relates to the old variant, not the new variant.

Do you really expect D of E to say anything else?

That aside, there's no routine testing of babies/toddlers (nor should there be IMO) but that means we have NO idea how much they're transmitting it around the staff/families.

Nurseries need to close, key worker spaces only again.

We have been told that we have to take the parents at their word, if they say the child is fine then they are fine.
We now have 4 staff from the room tested positive. This parent is very vocal that we should stop testing and thinks its a conspiracy!!

@Thehop

Nurseries need to close, key worker spaces only again.

And again I'll point out that this isn't enforceable or financially viable for most nurseries so they wont stay open to any children.

@TheKeatingFive

We found an au pair before the start of the 2nd wave when this current situation was inevitable.

And you do realise this isn’t an option for everyone, particularly lower paid key workers who are vital for things like food supply?

Of course, however what did all these people do when it happened in March?

My opinion is just that, but as someone in the depths of covid in a large hospital I can hand on heart say we just cannot continue how it is for very much longer. I don't expect people to understand how utterly awful it is, I didn't until I was redeployed to my current role.

@glitterelf

The issue is the mixing of the adults in these settings and that children are the spreaders. There is also the issue of funding it's no where near what it should be and this all has a huge effect. Without support more nurseries and childminders will close but leave them as they are and you will lose the lives of those working in these settings. We need proper testing for staff and we need to be a priority for the vaccine. We also need parents to be onboard and listen to the advice that if you can keep your child home then do so. Just look at the schools and the volumes of children still attending because lots of parents are selfish and just do not want to have their children at home or do the remote learning this is wrong and isn't helping the current situation. I'm a childminder I've chosen to take the stance of the first lockdown of key worker and vulnerable children only to reduce the risks thankfully my parents are on board and supportive. However I'm unsure how long I can sustain working like this as costs have risen with food and cleaning products and a reduction in children if I'm feeling it then so are the nurseries.

I think the Govt should be 'topping up' nurseries & childminders that are willing to stay open & that you should all be vaccinated as a priority.

Do the parents understand how difficult it is fir you to stay open? Are any of them in a position to contribute a bit more? If I needed a childminder & if I could afford it, I'd be happy to pay more.

@TheKeatingFive

It's not a competition over who has it harder

I’m not saying it is.

I’m saying at what stage are we going to acknowledge that strapping toddlers into a pram for two hours is basically neglect? That parents are being forced to do.

Just because some people can manage doesn’t mean all can.

I don't disagree with you, it's something I wouldn't have done (Children's Safeguarding Team for a start), I'd have explained at the start of the meeting that I had a toddler at home and would do my best - which is something I had to do every day for 6mths, many others were in the same boat. Of course some people will find it more difficult than others, of course some people will have less sympathetic employers, but unfortunately we can't take every single person's individual circumstances into account when deciding National Lockdowns.

Of course, however what did all these people do when it happened in March?

I expect many used family care under the radar.

Their older parents predominately.

I doubt a wholesale return to this will result in better outcomes for your ward unfortunately. Do you?

Key worker only provision at nursery level isn't viable for many nurseries. DS is one of 6 at his preschool eligible. They have said they can remain open only if all 6 take up the spaces.

Our hospital and others locally have a pop up creche for children of all ages, at any time of day if their parents have no other childcare. Parents using this must be doing doing the lateral flow testing to pick up asymptomatic cases.

unfortunately we can't take every single person's individual circumstances into account when deciding National Lockdowns.

But we do need to face, head on, what some people are being forced to do. And decide if that’s an acceptable ask.

@GoldenPoppy get well soon! Parents like that are the absolute worst- DS has brought so many bugs home through other families being selfish like that. It’s cruel to send your child in when they’re unwell, and socially irresponsible in normal times- but during a pandemic? 😤😤😤

Nursery and key stage 1 should be treated the same. Closed apart from key workers only.

KS1 will suffer more as they are actually supposed to be learning at a certain pace

My nursery did not stay open for KW/V children last time as it was not financially viable. If they closed this time round, I doubt they'd survive.

Nurseries are private businesses that need fees in order to maintain a service. The decision to keep them open may seem bonkers to some when thinking purely of transmission risks, but there is a longer term financial cost of closing them. Parents (mainly women) would end up leaving the work force to take care of them at home, putting the whole childcare industry in jeopardy.

If nurseries are told to close, the government must have a financial package worked out to support the sector and working parents.

As a childminder I welcome 5 extra children into my home. Each child has siblings and parents who could also carry the virus.
I have to offer a level of education to these children and I have to home educate my own children.
I am not considered important enough to have regular testing or important enough to be considered for a vaccine sooner.
My role is not valued yet I am expected to put myself and my family under extra risk.

Financially I cannot afford to close my buisness because the grant is about £400 a month which won't pay my bills as a single parent. I can't be furloughed. I can't charge parents if we close.

If we close to everyone but key workers I lose 4 income streams and will just have to try and rob peter to pay Paul. I'm exhausted by it all.

Nursery and key stage 1 should be treated the same. Closed apart from key workers only.

But they’re not the same because nurseries have financial viability issues that schools don’t have.

[quote Astormofswords]@Woolly17 ohh that’s rough! Sending positive vibes your way. I have a feeling we might all be in the same boat soon!

If you have any good coping mechanisms let me know other than drinking a bottle of wine in the evening 😂🤣[/quote]
Wine at night??🙄

More like Gin in the morning!

@TheKeatingFive

unfortunately we can't take every single person's individual circumstances into account when deciding National Lockdowns.

But we do need to face, head on, what some people are being forced to do. And decide if that’s an acceptable ask.

You mean like if it’s ok for children to miss out on social interaction with other children and loose part of their education?

@TheKeatingFive

Nursery and key stage 1 should be treated the same. Closed apart from key workers only.

But they’re not the same because nurseries have financial viability issues that schools don’t have.

Exactly! This is the point so many don't seem to be acknowledging.

You mean like if it’s ok for children to miss out on social interaction with other children and loose part of their education?

Well I was thinking more about having to be strapped in buggies and ignored for hours at a time, but yes, that too.

I actually can’t afford not to send DS to nursery. I’ve already paid for the month. UC is given when DS attends nursery. I can’t afford to not get that money back.

Not to mention that I’m a single mother and working with a nursery child is near impossible. My work is flexible, but I still have targets as I’m the only one in my role. There is no one else to pick up the slack for me, which would mean getting core work done 8pm - 3am, sleeping until 7 and repeat. That would be my life.

Otherwise unpaid leave and no bills or mortgage paid.

So the self isolating grandparents would help out then they’d catch it potentially-

Then the nurses would close permanently

Nursery’s

We should close everything for a few weeks like they did in Italy, got the number of infected down quickly.
None of the vaccines stop the spread it just stops it being so bad when you do catch it, so they say.
Limiting contact with others is the way to go, it's hardly rocket science.

We found an au pair before the start of the 2nd wave when this current situation was inevitable.

Good idea! Do you pay her NMW, plus NI and pension contributions? Do you have an employment contract? Have you registered for PAYE? Do you have employer’s insurance? Does s/he get paid holiday and sick leave?

If not, I wouldn’t brag about that TOO loudly.