To think closing nurseries would be disastrous?

[Purgatory2021]

I'm seeing it discussed left right and centre, my post was prompted by television this morning.

For many reasons (none selfish) I think it would be disastrous, but the one that stands out to me the most is people's ability to work.

I'm sure there will be plenty of nurses/HCP's/important key workers who rely on nursery to be able to do their jobs.

Not everybody has family that can step in.

Older primary aged children and secondary age children can fend for themselves to a degree if push came to shove, but you can't do the same with toddlers and babies.

@Ilovegreentomatoes

All of these replies and no one is showing the least bit of concern for us nursery staff.

I'm sorry you're feeling ignored. You're really not, it's been talked about a lot on other threads.

I have been quite vocal about ALL school staff getting the vaccine ASAP & I'm sorry if I haven't specifically mentioned nursery staff/childminders but I include them in that.

I have quite specifically said nursery staff & chikinders on threads because they (you) cannot socially distance. I mean it's a joke in most schools, but there's a slight chance, but babies & pre schoolers, there's no chance.

I'm not sure what to say because there was a thread the other day with people getting very angry with those of us saying 'stay safe' or 'take care' as they felt it was patronising/accusing them of playing fast & lose with the rules/ridiculous etc etc. But I'm thinking of you & everyone else working with children in any capacity.

I do, but can't while schools are closed to non KW/V children, so I'm at home. I'm thankful for that, but worried because I won't have any contracts if this continues. I still totally support the lockdown though. I just wish some people weren't sending their kids in when they don't absolutely need the childcare (or the children are very vulnerable etc).

Those who are sahp but have their kids in 15 hours eg at preschools should be encouraged to keep them home at least, at the moment you have to pay even if you don't send them so most are going

I hope Whitty’s comments (about only using nurseries if you need to) don’t cause a big financial problem for nurseries - ie furloughed parents/SAHPs withdrawing their children and requesting refunds on the basis that the CMO said they shouldn’t use them if they don’t need to.

The truth is most families without any particular reason to fear Covid are desperate for their kids to go back to school both for the kids' sake and their own sake and that is a very understandable and human way to feel. It's very hard for people to make decisions that will result in them struggling when they aren't able to see the direct benefit. Governments on the other hand do or should have that wider perspective and that's why this government's aversion to making hard decisions has been so unfortunate.

I just wish some people weren't sending their kids in when they don't absolutely need the childcare (or the children are very vulnerable etc).

The trouble is many nurseries need a these children in to be able to cope financially. Taking a huge proportion of these children out of nursery will likely mean they have to shut their doors to everyone including keyworker and vulnerable children.

@TheKeatingFive

It was difficult but we managed and there's no signs our toddler was adversely affected by it.

Well that's great and everything, but there was poster on here (not sure which thread) who ended up having to strap her 2 year old twins into a buggy in another room for two hours so that she could attend a key meeting. This is the reality for some people.

And I had to juggle my 2yr old whilst attending safeguarding meetings and CP conferences. It's not a competition over who has it harder. People had to understand I was working with a toddler at home so if he could be heard it was tough. We're in the middle of a Pandemic and so did whatever I had to do. I'm not minimising or saying it's not really bloody difficult, I have also been on the edge due to this as have most people. But yes, we survived.

@Backbee

Yes. Dreadful to treat adults,like well, sensible, responsible, people

That's not the issue. If the directive was to close, those who are WFH, for example, would have something to back up with their employer that they are unlikely to be able to fulfil their duties. If they are open and people can send them in, then that's a choice and most employers won't accept that.

Yes, I realise that, I've posted it so many times on other threads!, but I was just replying to the specific post in regards to blaming parents for sending them in. I should have restated it yet again. Apologies. I do realise some employers lack any common sodding sense or understanding & yes, I do understand some do & some can't.

It's all a fucking mess with no easy answers 😥

@Buddytheelf85

I hope Whitty’s comments (about only using nurseries if you need to) don’t cause a big financial problem for nurseries - ie furloughed parents/SAHPs withdrawing their children and requesting refunds on the basis that the CMO said they shouldn’t use them if they don’t need to.

I’m on maternity leave and have voluntarily kept my toddler off since Christmas but I can’t pay £800 a month indefinitely for a service I’m not receiving.

Equally the nursery can’t afford to tell families of too many privately funded children to stay off and lose their income.

They need to clarify what is happening financially if they want parent to volunteer to keep their children at home.

It's not a competition over who has it harder

I’m not saying it is.

I’m saying at what stage are we going to acknowledge that strapping toddlers into a pram for two hours is basically neglect? That parents are being forced to do.

Just because some people can manage doesn’t mean all can.

Our nursery closed last year as I was the only one who still required it to be open (nhs worker) and obviously it wasn’t financially viable to run for just my daughter....

I think the government need to think things through more.
It’s a difficult situation. Parents need to work and having really young ones at home is not always possible. The TV/iPad can only entertain them for so long.
However, at what point do you stop putting the staff at risk?
In an ideal world, the government would be thinking of ways to support nurseries financially, to stay open for key children only, so that they can reopen fully at a later date. So that parents do not have to pay the fees whilst not attending. (Hopefully, this could mean SOME more parents have the option of furlough, if the drop in fees makes the 20% less monthly wage more doable. Hope that makes sense).
I fully support the news for settings to be open for Key worker children (though maybe the list needs looking at), and children who are vulnerable. Parents who do not NEED to use the service (such as those where just one parent works and one is at home or furloughed) should not be allowed at this current time, to reduce numbers and somewhat contain a spread if there is an outbreak.
And before the argument comes “but my child needs to socialise”, I do understand that, but your child’s socialisation is NOT more important than the health of nursery staff, the other children or their families.

Like I said really difficult situations. Covid impacts people’s lives differently and I don’t think there’s a one size fits all approach.
Maybe one good idea would be to prioritise those working in a face to face role (such as nursery staff) getting the vaccine. It may at least reduce some of the anxieties that they have. (Which I’m sure you can appreciate is quite a lot!)

@Blughbablugh

This is something I am worrying about. I am an addictions therapist. I have people on my case load who are vulnerable, have very poor mental health, some are high risk of suicide. I have been working from home since March. My 3 year old goes to nursery, she is very clingy to me and if I am in the house she will want to be with me. She can entertain herself for a little while but she is 3 and wants to be near to me pretty much all of the time. Their is no way that I can work, doing meaningful interventions with vulnerable people whilst my 3 year old is in the background singing, shouting and wanting my attention, it is impossible. Some of the things discussed as well are not suitable for her to hear. If I go in to another room she will scream for me. Yes I am classed as a keyworker /critical worker whatever but last time after 2 weeks the nursery shut completely. So what do I do? Ask for furlough, give up my job? We have no family near yo support and the family we have are in their 70s. This will mean my colleagues are left to pick up my caseload and my service users suffer. Its lose lose for me!

Nightmare situation for people in jobs like yours, with little ones who just want to be with mummy if she's in the house!

If the nursery closes, you don't have to pay fees, is there someone at the nursery that DD really likes? Could you pay them for a few hours each day? Lunch, playground & something really fun & she might not s create too much, especially if you promise her mummy time afterwards.?!

As someone said upthread, if nurseries closed grandparents would be drafted in to help which of course is a disaster waiting to happen but what choice do working parents have?
It would be inhumane to stop support or childcare bubbles also. Parent's would not be able to work and even if they are furloughed, not all will survive on 80% of their pay.

There is a lot of talk about keyworker provision. But what about parents who both WFH in busy jobs with no furlough options and have a toddler/baby? That is near enough impossible, but in the suggestions listed here, they wouldn't qualify for a place due to not being a 'keyworker'. Surely the idea here is to help people keep jobs who have them? Rather than putting them in extremely difficult, stressful situations where they could risk losing their jobs and putting more pressure to an already boiling financial economical pot.

If nurseries have to close (to all except key worker children) I think the Govt should grant ALL working parents including dads and public sector workers the LEGAL RIGHT to shared furlough to allow for spreading the childcare load between parents... this would help to reduce transmission and enable and encourage more people to really stick to the rules, meaning this provision would hopefully only be for a couple of months.

@Fizbosshoes

I know a couple where the DH is an ICU consultant and the DW is a nurse. They have a child at nursery, although they do have local GPs who could potentially look after him, but they are in their 70s. They can't be unusual in being a family of 2 Keyworkers

No they aren't and without a shadow of doubt they NEED childcare.

I think the Govt need to keep the nurseries & allow childminders to stay open for the children if parents like this & others who do sensitive important WFH (like the social workers) the staff should get their vaccinations ASAP & the Govt should 'top up' to the point where it's viable for them to stay open.

As someone working on a covid ward with 2 children in nursery, I pray for nursery to close.
My colleagues are on their knees, people are dying in ambulances waiting outside hospitals, it's impossible to deliver the high quality of care we strive for.
Everything that can possibly close needs to, coffee shops, garden centres, B & M, all but essential childcare. No more meeting people outside, we need March level lockdown and we needed it yesterday

I'm a nursery nurse whos tested positive this morning, I caught it from a child.
A child whos parents are both furloughed who came in with a cough and smelling of calpol.
I'm almost 50 and just missed the shielding list, I am terrified.

I pray for nursery to close.

Who will mind your children?

@Smileyaxolotl1

Is there any evidence of spread in nurseries/pre schools though? Surely that is the point. There was not one case last term in my child’s pre school. This is what never seems to be considered.

Jesus wept, of course it's considered. Try reading other posts. Lots of cases.

Do you seriously think you're the only one considering that?

If nurseries closed then I will be another frontline NHS worker forced to reduce my hours significantly or even stop working. I work in medical admissions on an a rota that is already short staffed and the hospital desperate for us to do extra shifts.
My DH is military and his role is also vital (something that has to continue for the security of the country.) He also earns more than me.
Grandparents, while young enough to help, are both frontline NHS workers so although they would try to help, that isn’t really an option. Plus I think childcare bubbles will also have to be reviewed.
My nursery has told me that they are not sure if they will be able to remain open for key workers only as it is financially unviable. Finding an alternative nursery, one with spaces and the flexibility to accommodate my changing rota is impossible. I had the choice of two for my son before I went back to work as it is. I also cannot afford to be paying my closed nursery and a new one.
I feel for nursery workers- I want them to be safe as possible, I want them to be prioritised for the vaccine. I’m also worried for their jobs if they are forced to close.

It isn’t simple but closing nurseries is not like closing schools. They don’t get the funding schools get- schools get it irrespective of whether the pupil is at home or in the classroom. And for those saying keyworkers will get a place- they were scrabbling around in the first lockdown to get places so don’t be so confident.
I think there are other things that should be addressed first- offices that can work from home but not etc but it is easy to target nurseries sadly.

@GoldenPoppy hope you're feeling better soon. Why didn't someone refuse them when they turned up smelling of calpol and with a cough? Rightly so here they have been very stringent, your manager should play a part in trying to mitigate the stupid decisions the minority of parents make.

@TheKeatingFive

I pray for nursery to close.

Who will mind your children?

We found an au pair before the start of the 2nd wave when this current situation was inevitable.

We found an au pair before the start of the 2nd wave when this current situation was inevitable.

And you do realise this isn’t an option for everyone, particularly lower paid key workers who are vital for things like food supply?

We found an au pair before the start of the 2nd wave when this current situation was inevitable

Surely you realise thats a very privileged position that not all of your NHS colleagues would be fortunate to be in so many of them will have to instead stay home to look after their children.

Also im not sure au pairs are a good solution are they meant to have sole charge of small children for huge parts of the day?