To think closing nurseries would be disastrous?

[Purgatory2021]

I'm seeing it discussed left right and centre, my post was prompted by television this morning.

For many reasons (none selfish) I think it would be disastrous, but the one that stands out to me the most is people's ability to work.

I'm sure there will be plenty of nurses/HCP's/important key workers who rely on nursery to be able to do their jobs.

Not everybody has family that can step in.

Older primary aged children and secondary age children can fend for themselves to a degree if push came to shove, but you can't do the same with toddlers and babies.

Limiting contact with others is the way to go, it's hardly rocket science.

It's not rocket science but it's much more nuanced than just closing everything for several weeks. Where will the money come from to pay people's bills?

@TheKeatingFive

Nursery and key stage 1 should be treated the same. Closed apart from key workers only.

But they’re not the same because nurseries have financial viability issues that schools don’t have.

Exactly. And this in turn means some key workers including frontline NHS won’t have childcare as it won’t be financially viable for them to open for KW children only. My nursery have told me that. I will not be able to work. Both my husband and I are key workers- Im front line NHS and my DH in a role that is vital for national security (which involves years of specialist training). We can’t juggle shifts either as DH can be away at the last minute for days even weeks at a time. I had a limited choice of nurseries that were open long enough hours and had flexibility for shift booking. We are already having a nightmare juggling having my son cared for with my night shifts. We had a plan for this pre pandemic but right now we are just getting by- close nurseries and I will have to take unpaid leave or resign, leaving the NHS short of another HCP.

@Marzipan12

It's disasterous for everyone. For high school kids, primary kids, why should nursery kids needs be treated differently? Parents of just nursery kids have a very unrealistic view of older children. Children don't just become self sufficient when they turn 5 just because the idea suits the argument for nursery to stay open while the rest of essential education /schools is closed to the majority.

Yes its disastrous for everyone...however its more of a safety issue for younger children

A five year old can be sat in front on the TV for a short work call ...yes they may interupt ...yes you may have check on them every 2/5/10 mins or whatever depending on age and child ...however I cannot take my eye off my just walking toddler for one minute or she will have an accident /climb something she shouldn't etc

@WitchesBritchesPumpkinPants this where I’ve been going wrong

Gin in the morning, chocolate for lunch and wine in the evening 🙈😂

Limiting contact with others is the way to go

Limiting contact with vulnerable others is the most important thing.

If nurseries close to be replaced by grandparent care, how is that going to be anything other than counterproductive.

@GoldenPoppy

I'm a nursery nurse whos tested positive this morning, I caught it from a child. A child whos parents are both furloughed who came in with a cough and smelling of calpol. I'm almost 50 and just missed the shielding list, I am terrified.

Why was he allowed in with a cough and not sent home??? I'm so sorry for you are in this situation.

Of course, however what did all these people do when it happened in March?

Many nurseries went under. One million people lost their jobs. Lots of HCPs had to leave their jobs or take unpaid leave for childcare reasons.

@Fizbosshoes

I know a couple where the DH is an ICU consultant and the DW is a nurse. They have a child at nursery, although they do have local GPs who could potentially look after him, but they are in their 70s. They can't be unusual in being a family of 2 Keyworkers

The. Underlies would remain open for key worker and vulnerable children. However to do this the government would need to look at financial support for private nurseries I suspect.

Nurseries need to close. Kids are still a vector for transmission. We need, as we always have done, a proper lockdown. We’ve never actually had one.

@Wtfdidwedo

It would result in grandparents being drafted in because you can't safely work from home and look after a child under 4, and you certainly can't work out of home with no-one to look after them. It would also be disastrous to a workforce that is probably 99% female.

Haha that's of there are grandparents and/or relatives to help. We have neither. We have a 4yr old and a very active 17 month old and both working from home and it is exhausting. In Scotland and other parts of the UK nurseries are closed.

Ah sorry @GoldenPoppy I'd missed that you'd replied to this exact point. That's crackers. My DS's nursery just would accept a child in that situation. What a mess.

I'm a childminder in a very small setting. If we closed I would directly be causing at least three people to have to resign. They pushed it too far with unpaid leave last time. Those who were able to still attend are quite honest in saying that I saved their jobs and house.
If I just opened for keyworkers, I would be working for less than £4 an hour some days.
And the affect of having to resettle all those children all over again if we had to close again, who have spent half of their life already in lockdown...

@Mistlewoeandwhine

Nurseries need to close. Kids are still a vector for transmission. We need, as we always have done, a proper lockdown. We’ve never actually had one.

No they’re a tiny proportion of cases

*would NOT

@DreamingofGinoclock Then make the room completely toddler safe. I'm sorry but the education of older kids is far more essential than toddler care esp when things can be put in place like baby/toddler proofing. It's not rocker science and something us with older kids also had to do.

DD is a lockdown baby: I looked round several nurseries while I was still pregnant with her. By the time it came for her to start about half of those had shut. That's the reality of what happens when nurseries shut.

DH is a key worker in education but WFH: I'm not a key worker but back full time WFH. If DD's nursery bubble burst then I'd use annual leave and DH would use unpaid leave to care for her. If the nurseries shut and implement two key worker parents rule as in Scotland, DH would take more unpaid leave as (as is the reality of most families with one KW and one private sector) I earn more. On another thread I was called selfish for not thinking of the children DH supports, but we've got a mortgage to pay - if it's selfish to want to keep a roof over my child's head, I'm fine with that.

There were four cases in our nursery in the one week they closed for Christmas - 2 staff, 2 children. A bubble popped in the sister nursery. Friends who live locally caught it from their daughter from a different nursery, also that week. All four, two adults and two children had it - so three people got it from one child. The parents were very unwell. So I’m really not buying the myth that children miraculously don’t spread it. Remember that only about ten days ago the government was swearing blind that schools were safe. Until the very next day when they had to close because they are a”vector of transmission”. Also, what Chris Whitty actually said this morning on the Today programme was that parents shouldn’t use nurseries if they can avoid it. It is extremely unfair, putting that decision and responsibility in the lap of the parents.

@GoldenPoppy I’m so sorry I hear. How are you feeling?

[quote Marzipan12]@DreamingofGinoclock Then make the room completely toddler safe. I'm sorry but the education of older kids is far more essential than toddler care esp when things can be put in place like baby/toddler proofing. It's not rocker science and something us with older kids also had to do.[/quote]
There speaks as someone who doesn’t have toddlers in this situation. Seriously, you baby proofed a room and left your toddlers alone for hours at a time while you patented your older kids? No, I thought not. Parenting older children at the same time is in no way comparable to trying to do your paid job at the same time as looking after a baby or small toddler. And the education of older children is absolutely not more important than the immediate physical safety of a baby or toddler. One can be made up over time, mistakes in the other can never be undone.

YANBU. Nurseries are not shown to overly affect transmission. It would be highly disruptive to close them, so for heavens sake let's at least let this lockdown have a chance at working. If there is compelling DATA to back up a closure, only then should it be considered.

As to key worker children attending, that's fine but those numbers wouldn't be high enough to sustain an entire nursery.

Finally, non-KW parents work too!!!!!!! I keep saying it - we don't pay these fees because it's fun. What are we supposed to do?? And I think we need to realize that it's not just key workers who have value. Without working private sector parents doing what they do, the funding reduces for NHS, schools, furlough etc.

Just realised I slightly misinterpreted your post @Marzipan12 but my point still stands, you simply cannot baby proof a room and go off and do your day at work. You can, however, leave older children with far less supervision.

@welshladywhois40

I would agreed with you until this week where my son has now been exposed to covid at his nursery. His bubble is now self isolating as three children in his group have tested positive.

I am 38 weeks pregnant and now potentially exposed and was due to be induced in two weeks due to high risk pregnancy.

So I wish to god he had closed the nurseries last week

I'm sorry. I hope you remain free of it & your birth goes well 💐

But can I ask... if it would have been
Possible to jeep DS home last week if they were closed, why you didn't keep him home anyway. I know it's not easy when you're heavily pregnant

@Buddytheelf85

We found an au pair before the start of the 2nd wave when this current situation was inevitable.

Good idea! Do you pay her NMW, plus NI and pension contributions? Do you have an employment contract? Have you registered for PAYE? Do you have employer’s insurance? Does s/he get paid holiday and sick leave?

If not, I wouldn’t brag about that TOO loudly.

Obviously, my OH is in the police, I'd be very foish to not be above board.

But please please please if you are:

• on maternity leave, *are fortunate enough to be a stay at home parent, *are furloughed *or can make arrangements for your child to be cared for at home - THEN JUST DO IT. There are too many children attending nurseries who don’t need to be there.

@copernicium

I'm a childminder in a very small setting. If we closed I would directly be causing at least three people to have to resign. They pushed it too far with unpaid leave last time. Those who were able to still attend are quite honest in saying that I saved their jobs and house. If I just opened for keyworkers, I would be working for less than £4 an hour some days. And the affect of having to resettle all those children all over again if we had to close again, who have spent half of their life already in lockdown...

My CM is a godsend.

Employer goodwill is gone. Mine is doing fine financially but there’s bugger all change of being allowed to stop work unless signed off.