On our way to Biden's Inauguration (Trump #119)

[Roussette]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4128420-Capitol-Hill-and-the-next-2-weeks-Trump-118?watched=1&msgid=103459695#103459695

Here we are on our fast moving theads

@TooTrueToBeGood I take it to be one of the more unpleasant human characteristics - winning at all costs, which has definitely seen a marked increase in recent years.

They are repeating the programme Inside Obama’s White House on BBC4 and I rewatched the first episode the other night. In it Nancy Pelosi talks about how, when Bush (W) had been President the Dems might not have agreed with him but they found ways to work to pass bills (such as an economic package tied to the 2008 financial crisis which happened shortly before Obama took over) for the good of the American people, but that as soon as Obama became President the Republicans flat out refused to work with them, hence why so many pieces of legislation were passed by small margins.

Who can say if that was rooted in racism, but I think it played a part certainly with all the “birthed” stories riling up the base.

But nominations are decided by party members in both major parties, not the party hierarchy. Trump's main base has always been at grassroots level, which has a nasty extremist element as part of it obviously.

He also won because Hillary Clinton was very unpopular, including within the Democrat Party. The Sanders wing of the party didn't support her. Biden by contrast has the support of the whole party, since Sanders publicly endorsed him.

“Birther” that should read.

@TooTrueToBeGood I take it to be one of the more unpleasant human characteristics - winning at all costs, which has definitely seen a marked increase in recent years.

Possibly because the penalty for losing is no longer death ? We've sanitised it all.

In times gone by, Trumps failed coup would have ended up with his being hanged, drawn and quartered. Which might not have stopped him (after all by definition, narcissists are "special"). However it would certainly have seriously curtailed the number of people willing to follow him down the same path.

It would be an interesting moral and ethical question whether having that sort of limited power against a few leads to a happier life for many ?

[quote DGRossetti]^@TooTrueToBeGood I take it to be one of the more unpleasant human characteristics - winning at all costs, which has definitely seen a marked increase in recent years.^

Possibly because the penalty for losing is no longer death ? We've sanitised it all.

In times gone by, Trumps failed coup would have ended up with his being hanged, drawn and quartered. Which might not have stopped him (after all by definition, narcissists are "special"). However it would certainly have seriously curtailed the number of people willing to follow him down the same path.

It would be an interesting moral and ethical question whether having that sort of limited power against a few leads to a happier life for many ?[/quote]
It might make the many happier but killing the leaders of coups/rebellions has never stopped coups/rebellions happening after that point. I imagine it is similar to the research that shows that having the death penalty doesnt actually act as a deterrent.

There is also that serious point that again, you look at from the point of view where you and the government are in the right and the coup is in the wrong. But what if five years down the line the government becomes becomes extreme right wing/authoritarian and now the protesters/rebels are in the 'right' - the government would then have the right to hang the ringleaders. Or what if the government turns round as says, you know what we said we'd just hang the leaders but actually we're going to hang you all.

Website 'Mashable via Apple News is reporting that Parler has been taken down. Amazon has removed it from its web-hosting platform. Parler CEO says 'Will be down longer than expected'.

I'm looking for confirmation.

@AcrossthePond55

Website 'Mashable via Apple News is reporting that Parler has been taken down. Amazon has removed it from its web-hosting platform. Parler CEO says 'Will be down longer than expected'.

I'm looking for confirmation.

Was reported on the BBC lunchtime news too.

www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/01/09/amazon-parler-suspension/

Yep. It was taken offline at midnight per the WaPo.

I'm sure they'll find someone with no principles to 'host' them. But the longer it's offline the better, imo.

Turns out she's just a big fucking baby, like her husband.

Lie down with lying, philandering, misogynist dog, get up with --fleas- crabs.

She's disappointed though:

abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/lady-disappointed-trump-supporters-capitol-riot-75174796?cid=social_twitter_abcn

It might make the many happier but killing the leaders of coups/rebellions has never stopped coups/rebellions happening after that point. I imagine it is similar to the research that shows that having the death penalty doesnt actually act as a deterrent.

I wasn't talking about stopping coups. As I said, Donald Trump would have acted as he did no matter what the penalties because he would have convinced himself he'd get away with it. As has every would be usurper whose head has graced the castle walls.

I was suggesting it might deter some of the more weekend revolutionaries from following. Unless they wish they had more than one life to give for The Donald.

There is also that serious point that again, you look at from the point of view where you and the government are in the right and the coup is in the wrong. But what if five years down the line the government becomes becomes extreme right wing/authoritarian and now the protesters/rebels are in the 'right' - the government would then have the right to hang the ringleaders. Or what if the government turns round as says, you know what we said we'd just hang the leaders but actually we're going to hang you all.

Twas ever thus.

@BruceAndNosh

Melania painting herself as victim.

She is a victim.

Of her own stupidity. And cupidity.

@AcrossthePond55

www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/01/09/amazon-parler-suspension/

Yep. It was taken offline at midnight per the WaPo.

I'm sure they'll find someone with no principles to 'host' them. But the longer it's offline the better, imo.

There aren't many companies with the infrastructure to replace an AWS setup. Google and MS spring to mind. IBM might also have some capacity.

Surely this is an open goal for Brexit Britain ? Especially with all those cyber trainees chomping on their ballet shoes for a gig.

We should ask Michael "Mike" Gove to sort it out.

Or is that Mike "Michael" Gove ?

The more I think about it, the more I think that statement by the 'First Lady' was extremely ill-advised.

She was getting more sympathy through remaining enigmatically silent.

Now she's likely pissed of the looney Trump base, including Donnie Jnr, her staff, the families and colleagues of the dead police officers because of her listing order, and most sentient Americans.

I wonder if it was her knee-jerk response to Arnold Schwarzenegger's stinging video? Being that she's also a European from a place that once saw carnage. She's playing a 'rising above' game rather than face facts and face the awful truth.

Actually I rather think now that she doesn't actually give a fuck.

CaveMum
I take it to be one of the more unpleasant human characteristics - winning at all costs, which has definitely seen a marked increase in recent years.

Winning at all costs is fine in many circumstances: if what you need to win is food for your child by your effort, for instance. It becomes unpleasant when it's winning not "at all costs" but "at someone else's expense".

Life as strife against other people as a zero-sum game is horrendous; life as a co-operative effort with other people is more desirable all round. (And the best games are the ones where you have to co-operate with the other players, for instance to get people out of a burning building, not the ones like Monopoly where one person has w0on after the first round and the rets is just a long-drawn-out defeat for the other players.)

The trouble is that we have somehow allowed the strife people to be assumed to be the only people who matter. I think that is what is on the increase.

@Roussette

As there's talk of impeaching in 100 days time, why couldn't they try for the 25th and then resort to impeachment... but what do I know...

As I understand it (though happy to be corrected by someone more knowledgeable) there are some issues with immediate impeachment.

Biden is reportedly not keen as it would tie up Congress/Senate and prevent him hitting the ground running with the COVID/Economic policies he wants to push through ASAP.

The fact remains that even if they do impeach him in Congress his guilt would need to be voted on by the Senate and I think you need 2/3 majority to do this and the Democrats only now hold that by Harris's casting vote.

If they push impeachment out by 100 days this gets over Biden's concerns and realistically there's not chance of doing it before the 20th anyway - even at all.

In short I'm not sure trying to impeach Trump will achieve anything more than being a symbolic gesture - though if by some miracle they could get enough Rep. Senator's to support it, just the fact it would stop Trump running again would be a major win (and this might be the one argument to persuade some to do just that - do they want to risk Trump making a comeback in 4 years because as is the GOP us in enough shit already).

The 25th is the only way to do something before the 20th and there's a lot of reasons why Pence won't want to do this.

Upshot is I think Trump will get away with it.

The big question is will he try and pardon himself (because as much as Pence won't use the 25th I believe, by the same token his big Fuck You to Trump could be refusing to pardon him if Trump resigns).

Also is a self pardon legitimate?

What I thinks most realistic to expect is Trump being held accountable for tax issues in NYC as a form of censure.

@Roussette

Dear oh dear oh dear...

Melania has put out a statement...

www.whitehouse.gov/articles/first-lady-melania-trump-path-forward/

'Our path forward'

Ugh - my feeling at the end of that was “it’s just words on a page”. I didn’t believe a word of and it didn’t inspire anything in me. Compare that to reading something from Michelle Obama and the difference is stark.

She would have done better by saying nothing at all.

Biden is reportedly not keen as it would tie up Congress/Senate and prevent him hitting the ground running with the COVID/Economic policies he wants to push through ASAP.

Before the election, I'm sure I saw an article of " executive orders Biden could issue to reverse Trumpism..."

(googles)

www.usnews.com/news/elections/articles/2020-12-18/the-trump-policies-biden-can-undo-by-executive-order

Henry Zeffman @hzeffman

Just announced: Biden and Harris’s first act after being sworn in will be to lay a wreath at the tomb of the unknown soldier — joined by the Obamas, Bushes and Clintons

What I thinks most realistic to expect is Trump being held accountable for tax issues in NYC as a form of censure.

Pretty certain there was story a while back that the NYC DA has a sheaf of sealed indictments just waiting for the 21st.

I still have a vague hunch that Trump won't pardon himself, but try a new angle of being hauled in front of a court, and claiming to the court that his is "still president" and that it's the courts job to reverse the election by taking it to the supremes. With a potential riot outside every court hearing.

@DuncinToffee

Henry Zeffman *@hzeffman*

Just announced: Biden and Harris’s first act after being sworn in will be to lay a wreath at the tomb of the unknown soldier — joined by the Obamas, Bushes and Clintons

That seems like an invitation for trouble, I would have thought. Telling the world now where they and the past presidents will be??

Unless it's some sort of double bluff to see who turns up .....!

@DuncinToffee

Henry Zeffman *@hzeffman*

Just announced: Biden and Harris’s first act after being sworn in will be to lay a wreath at the tomb of the unknown soldier — joined by the Obamas, Bushes and Clintons

'MAGA wanna be assassins this way please'.

Honestly does anyone think this is going to be a) wise b) feasible?

Ha @RedToothBrush I'm glad I'm not the only one whose mind leapt to worst case scenario there!

Melania, if you are reading this, why not start a thread in AIBU?
With a YABU / YANBU poll.
I'm sure you'll get great advice.
Hth.

That seems like an invitation for trouble, I would have thought. Telling the world now where they and the past presidents will be??

But the pendulum is swinging. Killing any of them - especially the president elect - makes them a martyr Trumps opponents and would probably spell the end of the GOP if it were to be connected.

There's always the risk of a lone wolf, of course.