Why does everyone hate Boris?

[skidadle]

Just that really. I neither like nor dislike him I don't feel any emotion towards him.
AIBU to ask why so many people on here hate/dislike Boris Johnson?

Yes, I know that. But their spurious reasoning didn't make it in the country's best interests, which was my point.

The EU had already said they'd extend transition if we asked.

And there were EU countries which weren't letting us in without a negative test; we could've easily adopted the same approach if we didn't want to stop travel altogether. This, combined with a fully-functioning test and trace set-up (and we all know how that went!) could've seriously reduced our Covid numbers and therefore deaths.

You aren't answering the question about comparing our Covid response to another island nation, so if you'd like to address that?

I thought Ireland didn't want a hard border?

Perhaps you have forgotten that the UK had signed an International Treaty to protect the UK/RoI from a hard border on the island of Ireland?

From that I must assume Clavinova that you approve of the UK Government's stance of ripping up agreements that they voted for without bothering to read, because they find them inconvenient. Until of course, the wrong man won in America, who strongly identifies as Irish and whoops, they decided that they didn't need to rip up those clauses after all.

@SnowWouldHelp

Incompetent Amoral (will say anything to maintain personal power) Generally prioritises personal vanity over national needs

*Immoral

@NoWordForFluffy

I see plenty. I don't keep a tally, however!

But you raise another point...why should voters support the party they vote for 'come what may'? That's the 'football team politics' I raised above. Surely anybody who's capable of critical thinking is also capable of criticising their previously-chosen party?

Actually, I see more BoZo / Tory voters supporting him come what may than other party's voters (though the far left / Corbyn fanatics run them close, for balance, but I don't see as many of those around).

I've voted all round the political spectrum; I'm very much a floating voter. I find unconditional support for any party quite bemusing.

100% agree.

Centric voter here too who can tip left or right dependent on manifestos or my thoughts on their leadership qualities.

The most interesting thing I see on my local MP SM page is the arguments from both sides.

It's Tory MP.

MP

Links to what Boris has done and adds own comment (she's up his arse so it's always a huge flattering post)

Tory responses "well done" "brilliant"

Left wing responders "what about....." "what happens if......" "will they still allow/do......"

Tory responses "shut up, thick lefty, have no idea what your talking about, just annoyed you lost, we've left with stop whinging"

I very very rarely see someone in the right actually respond exhaling they answers to the questions or defending the actions with fact.

Whatcha has often made me wonder if sometimes politics is all about football team politics. They defend their party - but they don't necessarily know or understand what they are defending.

I'm another floating voter. The last few elections, I've always made up my mind when in the polling booth. I've never voted Tory, the only one I might conceivably have voted for was John Major (I didn't, though).

I can't understand why anyone would stick to one party without thinking through whether they're the best party for the country right now. The Tories under BoJo are a completely different party from the Tories under Major or even Cameron.

NoWordForFluffy
The EU had already said they'd extend transition if we asked.

Back in Feb 2020 after we had stopped travel between the UK and the EU, quarantined their truck drivers for 14 days, blocked the Irish land bridge and imposed a hard border between NI/ROI?

You aren't answering the question about comparing our Covid response to another island nation, so if you'd like to address that?

Instant Irish unification? Block up the Channel Tunnel?

This, combined with a fully-functioning test and trace set-up (and we all know how that went!)

The same way as Germany's Covid Tracing App by the looks of it.

given that they're already changing their minds back to Labour

People always slag off a gov; mid term. Starmer is a the metropolitan, open-borders-intent who engineered Labours catastrophic second ref policy. He propped up in parliament the lying, superstitious jew hating IRA adoring clown Corbyn for 4 years and would have happily worked under him. He did nothing about the industrialised rape and torture of thousands of vulnerable white women and girls in Rotherham and protected Jimmy Saville from prosecution.

It'll take a great deal more than sitting in front of a Union flag and making occasional hops outside the M25 to walk around some council estate to win back the Red Wall voters.

My in-laws are from a Welsh mining town, and were lifelong Labour voters, until Brexit. Now they'll never vote Labour again, until it atones for the crime of tearing up their votes.

Peregrina
Perhaps you have forgotten that the UK had signed an International Treaty to protect the UK/RoI from a hard border on the island of Ireland?

No I haven't - I'm asking NoWordForFluffy how she would stop Covid (on our island nation) crossing over the Irish border?

Clavinova
You are doing sterling work derailing the thread into every topic possible
but still have not told us
WHY
you think Johnson is so great

Clav, why are the measures you suggest the ones which would've been chosen / viable? Again, there was a whole spectrum of measures with regards travel which could've been considered / taken but weren't.

You have an assumption of EU retaliation, to a fictional worst case scenario re transport which you've plucked out of the air, to preventative measures put in place because of a global pandemic. You're coming from a place of utter fantasy. And actually, yes, I still think the EU would've given an extension to Brexit, even with robust travel restrictions in place. And why? Because it was in nobody's best interests to have to give Brexit any headspace during critical pandemic reaction and planning.

He did nothing about the industrialised rape and torture of thousands of vulnerable white women and girls in Rotherham and protected Jimmy Saville from prosecution.

These are right wing lies which have been disproven.

The Tories under Johnson won an 80+ majority last December. It'll take 3 or more general elections to erode that.

The Tory government increased it's seat count in both 2015 and 2019. If people believe that shambles of a Labour Party under the 'leadership' of Sir Kneeler is going to take the prize from Boris on account of a poll taken by, of all people, Channel 4, I think you will be in for a very nasty surprise. Yet another one.

This needs to be faced. I like you, want a credible opposition party to keep the Gov on his toes. That is in all of our interests regardless of our political leanings.

I assume you mean the general 'you' being surprised, not the specific?

Given that you've repeated right wing tropes, and don't understand that the role of opposition is to act in the best interests of the country, not oppose for opposition's sake, I'm going to guess that you aren't as neutral politically as you've tried to make out previously.

In 1987 the Tories had a majority of 102, in 1992 this dropped to 21. A fall of 81.

This suggests that, actually, a majority of 80 can be lost between two elections.

My in-laws are from a Welsh mining town, and were lifelong Labour voters, until Brexit. Now they'll never vote Labour again, until it atones for the crime of tearing up their votes.

In what way have their votes been torn up now that they have got the Brexit they so keenly desired? Maybe that's a question you could ask them. I hope that they are happy with the way Brexit plays out for them. More investment for a start.

No I haven't - I'm asking NoWordForFluffy how she would stop Covid (on our island nation) crossing over the Irish border?

My recollection is that the DUP scuppered an all Ireland policy, which would have made sense. This is the DUP is now reported to be unhappy with the Brexit arrangements in NI. (No surprise there, they say NO.)

NoWordForFluffy
Clav, why are the measures you suggest the ones which would've been chosen/viable?

Sorry, but I don't think you've thought things through at all. Why are New Zealand still quarantining people in hotels for 14 days? Can't they just use a 30 minute rapid test? Wouldn't you have to quarantine/test everyone crossing over the Irish border like the other 'island nations' you are comparing us with?

ListeningQuietly
WHY you think Johnson is so great.

I answered the question put to me up thread. Otherwise: intelligent, charismatic, appeals to a broad spectrum of people, good at winning elections and gets things 'over the line'.

Right Wing Lie What a shameful thing to say!

Clavinova - when the Tory party knifes Johnson in the back, will you still support him, or will you do as Johnson, Patel, Raab, Gove etc. are now doing with Trump and pretend that didn't really support him?

Don't think they can't knife him. They turned on Maggie Thatcher in a most brutal blood letting.

When did I claim I was neutral politically?

Your attempts to get personal have failed.

Why do we require leisure travel during a pandemic, Clav?

Clearly, the sane thing to do was to stop leisure travel and have the same requirements in place in relation to food / manufacturing imports as are now in place to cross the Channel (i.e. a negative test).

I see that 'is competent' isn't in your list of reasons to like BoZo!

Bit defensive, @Jaypreen!

And they ARE right wing lies. Fact checkers prove that to be the case. Are you saying they're lies, but not right wing, or are you saying they're not lies? Because they are lies! Whose would you suggest they are?

The Tories under Johnson won an 80+ majority last December. It'll take 3 or more general elections to erode that.

Normally I would totally agree with that.

I'm not becoming convinced that BoJo and Gavin and the whole Cummings thing won't have a longer term effect and won't possibly make way for a closer vote and Lab/Libs coalition or even allow labour to get much closer next time and be in quicker.

Keir Starmer is being totally honest (this morning admitted he wouldn't changed Brexit treaty even though it went against what he voted for in parts - free movement), clear messaging and isn't playing too many party political games.

Whether that plays into the nations or against them is something I'm interested to see the outcome of.