Why does everyone hate Boris?

[skidadle]

Just that really. I neither like nor dislike him I don't feel any emotion towards him.
AIBU to ask why so many people on here hate/dislike Boris Johnson?

The Red Wall is a prime example.

It's an extreme example, yes. But interviews with people who swapped sides do show some people regret having done so (not all, and I don't recall if it was the majority, though polling has been done, so there is info out there).

There are many people who would never switch 'teams', however. They tend to be the ones with the loudest voices across the spectrum, I think.

Here we go: www.channel4.com/news/exclusive-poll-reveals-labour-leads-in-red-wall-constituencies

Actually, I see more BoZo / Tory voters supporting him come what may than other party's voters (though the far left / Corbyn fanatics run them close, for balance, but I don't see as many of those around)

Were you here before the GE? If you dared to admit voting Tory you were a cunt, scum, a murderer etc etc. It made me want to vote Tory just to piss them off

The Red Wall is a non story.
It reflects demographic change over the last 20 years where 2019 happened to be the tipping point
hence why Labour are so bloody stupid to focus on winning it back.
See the chart here
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashfield_(UK_Parliament_constituency)#Elections

Labour always fought the Boundary review which would have merged lots of those seats
now the Tories hold them, Labour should press ahead HARD

Johnson told lies about the EU for decades in his newspaper articles.
He owns Brexit

@MrsMiaWallis

Actually, I see more BoZo / Tory voters supporting him come what may than other party's voters (though the far left / Corbyn fanatics run them close, for balance, but I don't see as many of those around)

Were you here before the GE? If you dared to admit voting Tory you were a cunt, scum, a murderer etc etc. It made me want to vote Tory just to piss them off

I've been here for years, yes.

But I avoided most of those threads for the hyperbole on both sides. I don't need to a) tell MN how I'm voting; b) be told how to vote; c) see how others are voting; or d) tell others how to vote. I think any posts like the ones you refer to are ridiculous (equally, the all leavers are thick and racist theme).

If I do challenge an opinion / ask for evidence to support an opinion, I'd hope I've managed to at least refrain from throwing insults!

However, I find the 'it almost made me vote for the Conservatives' line a bit strange. But that's because nothing would've got me to vote for them, or even consider it, I suppose!

Also: you can be to the right in one area and (try to) profess to be left wing.

Many, many (English) posters on Mumsnet send their kids to private school. That’s just not a left wing thing to do.

*Guylan
You can think someone is intelligent but not like their character.

But that was my point - people who had published negative assessments of Boris Johnson had also described him as extremely clever. You needed to read earlier in the thread.

jasjas1973
I would say there are many hard right wing posters on here, far more than there is leftwing posters

Nonsense.
Hard right??

NoWordForFluffy
Don't tell me...you need to pop out so can't answer.

Not sure why you expected me to answer you at 8am on a Sunday morning when my last post was 8pm last night, but still.

What do YOU actually think about BoZo's pandemic response combined with Brexit. Do you think he's doing a good job? If yes, what's convinced you of this?

I think he has done reasonably well in extremely challenging circumstances.

what's convinced you of this

40,000 Covid deaths in Germany after they were highly praised for their Covid success in the first wave, and 9 countries in the European Union making up the top 15 countries for Covid deaths per 1M population (excluding Andorra, San Marino and Lichtenstein) - countries on our doorstep.

Brexit - I think Boris Johnson deserves some praise here - he managed to broker a deal against expectations. Clearly there is more work to be done and there have been some teething problems at the border compounded by VAT changes. But we are only 10 days in and we're in the middle of a global pandemic with disrupted supply chains - coronavirus testing at Dover has obviously slowed things down as well.

Regarding supplies to Northern Ireland:
Asda said that it had “not experienced any issues in getting Asda lorries across the [Irish Sea] border following the end of Brexit transition period” and so “this isn’t the reason for any availability issues”.

Revenue in Ireland (ROI) are blaming businesses for being unprepared; the Revenue spokeswoman said that it expected these challenges to arise “where trade and business didn’t make the advance planning arrangements that we have strongly advocated over at least the last two years”.

Not to mention IT problems affecting fish exports from Scotland to France;
IT problems in France meant [Scottish fish] consignments were diverted from Boulogne-sur-Mer to Dunkirk, which was unprepared as it wasn’t supposed to be at the export frontline.

It's a totally awful deal though, really, isn't it? A teeny, tiny, number of not-negatives (let's face it, they aren't positives) don't make it a good deal.

Given that fishermen really don't think it's a good deal for them, when they were apparently the whole point of the brinkmanship, something went very wrong with the negotiating somewhere!

Can you perhaps compare another island nation with our Covid response, given how easy it is to stop travel to and from an island?

NoWordForFluffy
Exclusive: Poll reveals Labour leads in ‘Red Wall’ constituencies

From your link - at the end;

However, Chancellor Rishi Sunak has emerged as the most popular politician in Red Wall constituencies.

That's good to know - I like Rishi Sunak as well.

I saw that. It's irrelevant if they're set to lose 36 of 45 seats! That tiny amount of positive news for the Tories doesn't make it a positive Tory story. Though that is your MO, I know.

NoWordForFluffy
Can you perhaps compare another island nation with our Covid response, given how easy it is to stop travel to and from an island?

Is there another island nation that's just had 4 million applications to its EU Settlement Scheme? How would we broker a Brexit deal with the EU if we stopped travel to and from the EU for 18 months/2 years? Instant No Deal?

Were you planning to close the land bridge to Ireland as well?

Maybe that's why trying to negotiate Brexit during a pandemic was a daft idea. It could've been paused!

There are a whole raft of measures re travel to our island which could've been considered. But we just let travel carry on, without even quarantine on arrival for a long time (and that's only ever been half-arsed) and a negative test before travel until now.

I'm asking you to compare our Covid response to an island nation, not one in mainland Europe. How about you try (your arguments re land bridges can form part of your response, if you feel it's relevant).

Given that fishermen really don't think it's a good deal for them, when they were apparently the whole point of the brinkmanship, something went very wrong with the negotiating somewhere!

Obviously:

The Irish Fishermen's Organisation say the Brexit agreement concluded today has "failed" Irish fishermen." ...

"Make no mistake - we will be seeking compensation from our EU colleagues to put right this grievous wrong." ...

"Taoiseach Micheál Martin has admitted some ground was given when it came it fishing."

"There were some concessions at European Union level on that but we will work with the fishing community to support the fishing community."

www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40196673.html

"German Agriculture Minister Julia Kloeckner warned of “painful cuts” for the European Union’s fishing industry due to the trade deal the bloc has reached with the United Kingdom. Kloeckner, a member of Chancellor Angela Merkel’s Christian Democratic Union, said she would have liked the cuts to be “significantly lower” ...

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-25/germany-laments-painful-cuts-for-fishing-sector-in-brexit-deal

European Fisheries Alliance;

“We were appalled at the EU offering 25% of the annual catch value to the UK which in NPV represents close to €1.6 billion..."

fisheriesalliance.eu/1010/

Maybe that's why trying to negotiate Brexit during a pandemic was a daft idea. It could've been paused!

For another two years? When are new Zealand coming out of isolation?

New Zealand

Yes, potentially. At least until the fire-fighting stage of the pandemic was over with and the vaccination programme had started.

Even pushing it back a year in the first instance would've been more sensible.

You are failing to see the point re fishermen. We were the ones willy-waving about not signing a deal that was bad for fishing. So getting a bad deal for fishing is a failure, given that posturing.

There's ages until the next GE. Why did Brexit have to happen NOW, given the circs? Clue: it didn't.

Surely anybody who's capable of critical thinking is also capable of criticising their previously-chosen party? Of course they are. To not do so is irrational.

RE: your point about The Red Wall ListeningQuietly. Yes ever since the Blair years this has been the case. Successive Labour leaders have failed to see it coming. This is what I meant by "credible alternative", [whatever your views on Brexit] - the Tories presented just that to so many of Labours traditional core voters. Its all very well to say they're changing their minds but will Starmer win them back? I have my doubts.

@skidadle

Just that really. I neither like nor dislike him I don't feel any emotion towards him. AIBU to ask why so many people on here hate/dislike Boris Johnson?

I quite like him actually.

Because he's lazy, venal, self-serving, hypocritical and incompetent as a politican, and was a liar as a journalist; and because on a personal level, I think that if he doesn't want to take responsibility for his children, he should stop having them.

If you dared to admit voting Tory you were a cunt, scum, a murderer etc etc. It made me want to vote Tory just to piss them off.

I think you've made a very important point here MrsMiaWallis. I think this was a feeling that many people shared at the last GE.

Its all very well to say they're changing their minds but will Starmer win them back? I have my doubts.

Well, given that they're already changing their minds back to Labour, I'd think there's at least an element of him managing to do that.

However, as you've pointed out re 'lack of credible opposition' meaning Labour votes went to the Conservatives, sometimes parties lose because they lose votes which go elsewhere, rather than the other party actively winning those votes. If enough voters are sick to the back teeth of the Tory government come the next election, there will be a swing to other parties (or I suppose they may just not vote, which could also swing the result).

If the newspapers are pissed off with the Tories come the GE, then they'll lose, as it tends to be the popular press which dictates results (there was an interesting 3 part documentary on Murdoch last year, on the BBC, which showed how Blair got Murdoch on board, therefore enabling him to win).

Why did Brexit have to happen NOW, given the circs? Clue: it didn't.

Because they were desperately trying to get it through before Trump left office, and were banking on him having four more years.

NoWordForFluffy

What about our obligations to the EU during the transition period? We stop travel between the UK and the EU (February 2020?) and they agree to an extension? For two years? How much would we have to pay for that? Would they even agree? Food and freight deliveries by truck to the UK from Covid-infested Europe? And the border between NI/ROI? A hard border? I thought Ireland didn't want a hard border? Freight deliveries between the continent and ROI through the UK? Quarantine truck drivers for 14 days before the rapid tests were introduced?