"You're not autistic, you're pretty!"

[seedycookie]

NC.

Just started speaking to an old friend who I've not spoken to in years via Snapchat, and we were discussing our lives in lockdown. I'm late to the autism diagnosis party (predominantly because I'm "pretty"ish and mostly socially capable in the right circumstances) and I let them know how life was going as a relatively newly diagnosed person - something which I've literally been fighting for for years.

They basically said "Nah can't be, you're way too pretty / normal looking for that". I didn't know how to respond to that and had a kind of response where I kept asking for them to clarify what that meant by that comment, and they backed off a bit and got quite sheepish, didn't really want to say what they meant but clearly believed on some level autistic people are all unattractive (and by the subtext men).

I'm loosely paraphrasing the message, but this was the core gist of it. I don't really know what my AIBU is, I'm just pissed off to be honest - I guess my AIBU is do you have an unattractive person in your head when you visualise autistic people? I have never read a thread or had a conversation about this because it comes across as boasting (clearly the worst thing a woman can do! ) but it really just aggravates me. It's like saying "aw you can't have blue eyes, you're too pretty for that"!. Makes no sense.

Honestly I'm just tempted to put 1000% put effort into being the best looking version of myself and talking about my autism all the time now. "Oh you like my lipstick shade? Thanks, it's the autism that helps me look this beautiful, darling!". (kidding of course).

Sorry, rant over maybe .
Apologies if this is in the wrong place too, I'm just mostly on AIBU!

(Note: since I always get this when recounting personal experience or talking about big topics, I am not a DM reporter (!!). If anything gets publicised, it's fuck all to do with me. I am also not stealth-bragging or a troll, please report if you think so. Thank you .)

I think people imagine we are all like Dominic Cummings

I’m not autistic but I’m a bit of an odd ball, and people find that hard grasp because I’ve always been quite pretty (or was in my youth! Now I’d be happy with “good for her age “)

So I definitely think that’s a perception with people.

Being a female and even getting a diagnosis is a barrier because the system is based on males. The whole thing is ridiculous x

Absolutely nonamesavail, if I hadn't fought tooth and nail to get a diagnosis I'd probably just have thought I was weird for the rest of my life. Thank you for responding!

Not sure how to stop all this "you're too _ to be autistic" stuff generally. I don't have any autistic friends so glad MN can be a bit of a bouncing board of responses.

No. Last person I told, when I was explaining about executive function, said "lots of people have untidy houses".
And then masking "well, we all act so we fit in to some extent".

I stopped bothering.

I don't have any "type" of person in my head when I think of someone autistic. I don't think it is linked to looks at all.

Three of the most good looking people I know are autistic.

One is a very tall dark and handsome nurse, one is his exceptionally pretty daughter and one was a boy in the year above me in my school who teenage me was deeply in love with but thought he hated me because he never spoke. Turns out he never really spoke to anyone because he was autistic. He ended transferring to a special school following year. He was bloody beautiful though.

My sister has autism (diagnosed as an adult) and is objectively, stunning (I look nothing like her). Absolutely it effects how she's seen and being very articulate and empathetic she really doesn't meet most people's stereotypes of someone with autism. But she is.

A few years ago lots of celebs revealed their dyslexia to help overcome the stigma and challenge stereotypes.
I can't wait for this to happen with autism. It will be an absolute game changer.

Ah the good old ‘but you don’t look autistic’.

My reply would be ‘you don’t look stupid, yet here we are’. 🤷🏻‍♀️

You clearly can’t be autistic OP, you have a sense of humour.
I think my autistic child is beautiful, blue eyes, such long eyelashes and he just makes me laugh with his bluntness.

Isn't it more that people are imagining a dowdy bookish sort. I think that's what OP means.

Yes, you assume right. But that still doesn't explain how being slow to get a diagnosis was in any way down to the attractiveness of your face.

If people can avoid criminal prosecutions and jail time based on the attractiveness of their face, I don't think it's unreasonable to realise that diagnoses can be affected in similar ways (especially when the diagnosis is to do with social presentation).

I assume you don't have lived experience of being a wrongly-undiagnosed autistic woman who doesn't present like an autistic man does and masks most of the time? It's a barrier, it's just not one people talk about.

What does this have to do with how pretty you are?

I'm autistic and i don't give a shit if people don't think i look autistic, i don't consider myself attractive and I'm cool with that

What does this have to do with how pretty you are?

Because diagnoses of autism as a woman are already very very difficult let alone when there's a social association of prettiness = more likeability (or more trustworthy etc, I think there's studies on it and if I find any I'll link some).

My dd has autism . She's absolutely gorgeous . Stunning and always smiling ❤️

@seedycookie

Struggling to see how being pretty or even just pretty-ish is a barrier to getting an autism diagnosis. confused

I assume you don't have lived experience of being a wrongly-undiagnosed autistic woman who doesn't present like an autistic man does and masks most of the time? It's a barrier, it's just not one people talk about.

Well you could assume that about most Mumsnet members and you'd be right

My daughter is autistic and I think she's beautiful but might be biased slightly. Her primary school said she wasn't autistic because she was too normal 🙄🙄.
I'm sorry OP but I couldn't be friends with someone as judgmental and ill informed as your friend. People like her really upset me.

Autistic people are no less or more attractive - I highly doubt that's why you've been undiagnosed for so long. Probably because you're not severely, life limitingly autistic?

As a late diagnosed autistic woman I got told I didn't look autistic by a psychiatrist when I first asked to go through the diagnosis pathway. I was also told by a family member that I seem normal when I asked them for help with the developmental report.

I think you sound pretty arrogant and insufferable to be honest, like they said they commented on your dress and not your attractiveness when you were a teenager and people who describe themselves as too pretty are generally pretty awful (let me guess you also don't have many female friends because they are intimidated by your good looks?).

Yes, people have a lot of preconceived ideas about autism but I've never heard of attractiveness being one of them.

In terms of how I present I am probably more stereotypical. I am average attractiveness but hate most clothes (I choose to wear the same few things over again and only like certain fabrics), hate most shoes, hate coats and hats and gloves and can't stand the feel or smell of cosmetics and jewellery.

Actually autistic children are likely to be more attractive than normal. It’s a feature of autism that has been commented on by a number of researchers, including Hans Asperger, and contributed to the myth of autistic children being ‘fairy children’ or changlings.
It’s a phenomenon that hasn’t been fully explored/explained but it’s definitely a ‘thing’.

This is a wee thing I found (sorry it's a Wikipedia definition, but I think it is a studied phenomenon)

The physical attractiveness stereotype is a tendency, described by psychologists, to assume that people who are physically attractive also possess other socially desirable personality traits. Stereotyping is the process by which we draw inferences about others based on knowledge of the categories to which they belong.

So yes, in the contexts of social responses (which is a large part of ASD) the alignment of your face can have an effect on how socially capable you are perceived to be.

@FuriousWithTheNHS

But you said yourself in your post that you’re ‘late to the autism diagnosis party primarily because I’m prettyish’

Struggling to see how being pretty or even just pretty-ish is a barrier to getting an autism diagnosis.

Because presenting as attractive which tends to include stylish and well presented are considered to be things that are beyond autistic people. You could have stunning bone structure and features but if you are seriously unkempt you probably wouldn’t be described as pretty. The fact that style/clothes/make up can be a special interest is also ignored because the diagnostic tools are designed on and for boys.

It’s not exactly an uncommon experience for women who managed to learn how to mask and look well presented to be told they can’t be autistic. I was told I couldn’t be autistic because I had a job and children. I’m autistic.

Do you know what OP you are reminding me someone did say my DD doesn't look autistic.

Also the old adage about she so thoughtful and empathetic that she mustn't be autistic.

I know it's annoying but people are annoying at times. The Less these things are hidden the more people will understand like someone said with the dyslexia the more open we are about it the better.

I assume you don't have lived experience of being a wrongly-undiagnosed autistic woman who doesn't present like an autistic man does and masks most of the time?

As an aside, you don't have to answer if you don't want to, but why would you mask when looking for an autism diagnosis? It seems kind of counter productive or is masking not a conscious thing?

Autistic people are no less or more attractive - I highly doubt that's why you've been undiagnosed for so long. Probably because you're not severely, life limitingly autistic?

Interesting assumption.

I get what you mean OP. Do you find that NT people don't get where you are coming from or trying to say even when you are being very clear? I do all the time, especially on here and name change a lot as people get overwhelming when they pile on with their nor do brains.
Dd "can't be autistic" because she has friends. She doesn't have friends. She has people she knows that she falls out with all the time and swaps and changes regularly. It's pointless getting myself diagnosed because I've "succeeded in life" with several degrees/post grad qualifications, got married, have 3 dc who I manage well as a single mum now that I'm divorced. Masking is exhausting and lockdown has been a blessing in some ways for those of us who don't really like or understand people.