Do I have a right to be angry about this? (Trans related)

[Nc109283485]

Nc for obvious reasons. This is a very personal issue to me which I am understandably sensitive about, so this may be why I feel this way. I am perfectly happy to be told I AMBU! I believe trans people deserve love and respect and a happy life just like everyone else. So why did this concern and anger me?

I have a condition called vaginismus which has been very traumatic and caused me lots of grief over my life. In my eyes it is a very personal and female problem. (Look if up if you're not sure what it is).

I have tried to join a support group on a social media platform to really get to the bottom of it and sort it out. I wont say which one as dont want to 'out' either myself or the group involved. My request was pending and a message sent. I assumed this was to confirm I definitely suffer from this condition and to make sure I wasn't some strange pervert, but no! The administrator messaged me to say that before I was accepted I would have to answer a 'test question' as this is a gender inclusive group. Will I be addressing group members as 'ladies, men or everyone'. The tone felt quite aggressive and if I did not pass this test I would not be admitted.

My first thought was are men allowed to enter this group? Do I really have to speak about my vagina in front of 'everyone'? Why not say hello ladies (and the occasional transman who currently has issues with their vagina) no I have to address everyone? Wtf?

I honestly don't know what to think right now but this group clearly isn't for me. But maybe I just need some re-education?

just as some women don't feel comfortable with the term 'cis woman', although its technically correct.

It's also not technically correct so this is really an opinion that you are presenting as fact.

Have you you heard of trans men. I repeat men. Some trans men have vaginas as they choose not to have reassignment surgery.

This is a thing,Lemon. Do you think that's right? Do you think males should be in groups relating to female only health issues?

A lot of trans men have vaginas.

OP yanbu and so sorry to hear you are suffering.

Only women have vaginas. It’s a biological fact. There are a lot of posters here confusing sex and gender. Your sex was decided at birth. Your gender is as you choose and you are also free to choose to refuse to engage in discussions over your own gender.

I am very happy to be inclusive and refer to anyone by whatever gender / pronouns they wish. As a Pp said, that is just good manners.

However please do not a) force me to identify as a gender (and therefore the associated stereotypes). My sex is female and I am not going to engage in any further discussion such as providing my own pronouns. Also please do not b) force me to acknowledge that the male sex have vaginas. They do not. Women who identify as men have vaginas and I would be happy to have them in a women’s only group. MTF trans women are not biologically women and I would not expect to have to discuss my vagina in front of them. That is an erosion of my own right to celebrate the fact I am a biological woman and share my concerns and medical issues with others (including women who state their gender to be male).

Good luck Op x

just as some women don't feel comfortable with the term 'cis woman', although its technically correct.

It's also not technically correct so this is really an opinion that you are presenting as fact.

This. Woman is a term defining sex. It does not need to be modified to express gender. You can simply describe gender separately using different words. Gender doesnt change the underlying biological sex/chromosomes.

Difficult can I ask, (making an assumption you're female here, apologies if that's not the case) have you always referred to yourself as cis? If you have have female relatives do you do so for them to? If not, how long have you used that term? What do you think is gained by doing so and what made you start using it?

• too

15:43Lemming20

👍💪

Lemming20 nicely put.

@Hollybutnoivy

Where are trans men with issues with their vaginas supposed to go and talk and feel comfortable?

What is wrong with saying that this group welcomes women and trans men?

Nothing. It's when the trans is centred, rather than the issue it purports to help, then it becomes an issue. And when the very first communication with a new member is an antagonistic PRONOUNS, you somehow doubt the emphasis of the group is going to be in supporting a female with a female condition.

Have you you heard of trans men. I repeat men.

You can repeat it all you like, most people fully understand these people are female and so not actually "men" in any meaningful sense.

Has biology taken a holiday then?
What, please tell me, about the following statements of fact and biology and genetics, is trans phobic?
Men have penises and testicles
Women have vaginas and uteri and ovaries
Women have XX chromosomes
Men have XY chromosomes
There are some extremely rare intersex conditions which gives dubious genitalia but are still generally XX or XY, apart from Kliefelters Syndrome which is XXY although still classed as male
People may 'feel' or 'identify' as another gender but they are and will always be biologically either male or female
It is impossible for a human being to change sex
Genetics cannot be changed
There are certain conditions exclusive to the biological sex you are born with. As a biological woman I can never have prostate cancer. As a biological man, you can never have periods, cervical cancer, endometriosis, uterine cancer, pre menstrual cramps, vaginal atrophy, and a whole host of other problems relating to female biological function.
Women can give birth
Men cannot give birth
Men produce sperm
Women produce eggs

Is it transphobic to reiterate what can be found in any book of biology in the world? Are we to deny biology in case someone's feelings get hurt? Seriously, I have had comments deleted before for saying any of the above things on other threads, and that makes me so damn angry. Biology is being denied to please the few.
I don't want anyone to feel bad. I want trans people to have the same opportunities and right to happiness as the next person. But don't tell me that I'm transphobic for not recognising scientific fact, genetics, evolution, common sense and truth.

A lot of trans men have vaginas.

But I asked about males. Not females.

Difficultcan I ask, (making an assumption you're female here, apologies if that's not the case) have you always referred to yourself as cis? If you have have female relatives do you do so for them to? If not, how long have you used that term? What do you think is gained by doing so and what made you start using it?

I don't use the term cis, nor do I (irl) use the term trans, although I do on here as people get deliberately 'confused' or spend pointless time correcting me when they know exactly what I mean. I know what this site is like, and I change the language I usually use to accommodate that.

I wouldn't use the term cisgender woman because there's no need to, and I know others find it offensive, although it is technically correct. The same with the term transgender.

You still haven't answered how it is "technically correct". By whose decree?

Transmen and non binary people can have vaginas. I agree it might be a bit of a shock if you're not used to using inclusive language, but it's just polite, IMO.

Women are not a subset of women. Males are not women.

I wouldn't use the term cisgender woman because there's no need to, and I know others find it offensive, although it is technically correct.

You keep on saying it is "technically correct". What do you mean? What is your definition of cisgender woman? I don't regard myself as cisgender according to any definitions I have seen. What am I missing?

although I do on here as people get deliberately 'confused'

Just like you did when you replied to my question about whether males should be in female health issue support groups?

What do you mean? What is your definition of cisgender woman?

According to Wiki, the definition is:

Cisgender (sometimes cissexual, often abbreviated to simply cis) is a term for people whose gender identity matches their sex assigned at birth. For example, someone who identifies as a woman and was assigned female at birth is a cisgender woman. The term cisgender is the opposite of the word transgender.

@ncbby And people who don't have a gender identity?

Oh yes Wikipedia. Completely reliable and not at all ideologically biased.

For agender / non-binary people, some identify as transgender to my knowledge.

Your sex was decided at birth.

No, it was decided at conception.

What are you going to do @Nc109283485, I really hope they can support you.
In this case I’d tick ‘everyone’. I cringe at being addresses as girl or lady and can imagine lots of non binary ofab would use the group and react similarly.