Do I have a right to be angry about this? (Trans related)

[Nc109283485]

Nc for obvious reasons. This is a very personal issue to me which I am understandably sensitive about, so this may be why I feel this way. I am perfectly happy to be told I AMBU! I believe trans people deserve love and respect and a happy life just like everyone else. So why did this concern and anger me?

I have a condition called vaginismus which has been very traumatic and caused me lots of grief over my life. In my eyes it is a very personal and female problem. (Look if up if you're not sure what it is).

I have tried to join a support group on a social media platform to really get to the bottom of it and sort it out. I wont say which one as dont want to 'out' either myself or the group involved. My request was pending and a message sent. I assumed this was to confirm I definitely suffer from this condition and to make sure I wasn't some strange pervert, but no! The administrator messaged me to say that before I was accepted I would have to answer a 'test question' as this is a gender inclusive group. Will I be addressing group members as 'ladies, men or everyone'. The tone felt quite aggressive and if I did not pass this test I would not be admitted.

My first thought was are men allowed to enter this group? Do I really have to speak about my vagina in front of 'everyone'? Why not say hello ladies (and the occasional transman who currently has issues with their vagina) no I have to address everyone? Wtf?

I honestly don't know what to think right now but this group clearly isn't for me. But maybe I just need some re-education?

It's the unwillingness to acknowledge they're an exception.
Most walking groups include wheelchair users but it is not expected that every mention of walking also mentions rolling, and if someone wants a wheelchair accessible route they mention that specifically when they ask. We don't demand that biology lessons teach that the human species is mostly bipedal but sometimes 4-wheeled.

All the group need to do to be inclusive is say females only - trans men welcome. And if someone has an issue where trans status is relevant they mention it in their post.

If there are other less weird groups I'd go for that ; if not give it a go. It could just be one moderator with a bee in their bonnet, or that some trans identifying members have been given grief in the past and they're trying to protect them. People en mass are not very good at jumping through pointless hoops, I wouldn't address a group as "ladies" generally anyway. It may be perfectly normal inside.

Yes. As a tiny minority, their feelings shouldn't trump all other women's.

And they still need somewhere to talk about their problems. This group has made it clear they are fully accepting of this, so why is it that they have to go elsewhere and not the op. There will be other places that op can discuss and learn about this where she will be comfortable. Why this group in particular?

Transgender people still have genitals

Which they never stop going on about!

op. There will be other places that op can discuss and learn about this where she will be comfortable.

This kind of stuff is really all over female support groups (though not men's as pp have noted). So where are women who aren't on board with female erasure supposed to go?

I am a woman- XX and would XY men be happy discussing erectile dysfunction with XX women?
Probably not.
I had a male gay friend say no one but XY men could join a group.

I said I could ID as a man and he said
“You are a woman”

Men do NOT want women in their groups😂

So why should we allow men in women’s groups?

Seems unfair.

OP, I can only imagine how you feel. Why do women always need to justify themselves?
This morning I bought panty liners and in the description a word "women" was used. Seeing that word made me so happy and at the same time also very sad.

Can't you see yours?

No, but if you could explain why you feel I'm being hypocritical to suggest that op finds another group, instead of trying to change the language and behaviour of an existing group I am all ears.

Which they never stop going on about!

In all fairness I hear infinitely more people who aren't trans talking about the genitals of trans people.

So where are women who aren't on board with female erasure supposed to go?

Where are trans men with issues with their vaginas supposed to go and talk and feel comfortable?

There will be groups for both. This isn't the group for op, that much is clear, so find, or set up, another one. Thats what transgender people keep getting told.

Where are trans men with issues with their vaginas supposed to go and talk and feel comfortable?

What is wrong with saying that this group welcomes women and trans men?

Where are trans men with issues with their vaginas supposed to go and talk and feel comfortable?

Groups that don't pretend they are general support groups for all female people with the condition, obviously. Because it's all about trans people and their feelings seemingly. All the time.

"some men have vaginas" I find it baffling that grown adults say things like this, and even more baffling that some of those adults actually believe it.

You can be kind without having to repeat or believe in a lie.

What is wrong with saying that this group welcomes women and trans men?

Because some trans men don't feel comfortable with that term, just as some women don't feel comfortable with the term 'cis woman', although its technically correct.

Groups that don't pretend they are general support groups for all female people with the condition, obviously.

This group didn't pretend anything, they messaged the op. Its not like she posted and was jumped on and kicked out. They gave op a choice.

@notreallybotheredaboutausernam

"Transmen and some non binary people have vaginas too."

@Nc109283485
"Yes but it is still mostly a women's issue"

This is to both of you:

It doesn't matter how they identify, vaginismus is only a woman's issue and identifying as non binary, a trans man or a bloody saucepan doesn't change that.

Because some trans men don't feel comfortable with that term

Trans men don't want to be referred to as trans men but men with vaginas is ok? Well, that's tough but seeing as it is factual and not offensive, I don't see the problem.

It really is no surprise that those who endlessly demand their egos are pandered to are testosterone addled in one way or another, biologically or otherwise

No, but if you could explain why you feel I'm being hypocritical to suggest that op finds another group, instead of trying to change the language and behaviour of an existing group I am all ears

my irony meter just exploded. Male TRA have done nothing but stomp all over women's groups demanding their language and behavior change!! do you really think women unilaterally decided that they preferred "cervix havers" or "chest feeding" or "menstruators"? of course we didnt but a life time of social conditioning to beeeee kind along with a hefty dose of threats and intimidation and many women's groups capitulated.

meanwhile mens groups continue serenely on using the word men and not remotely apologising for it

Trans men don't want to be referred to as trans men but men with vaginas is ok? Well, that's tough but seeing as it is factual and not offensive, I don't see the problem.

That's absolutely your choice. This groups admin obviously has a different view to you , and that is their choice too.

What is wrong with saying that this group welcomes women and trans men?

Because some trans men don't feel comfortable with that term, just as some women don't feel comfortable with the term 'cis woman', although its technically correct.

In what sense is this nonsensical gender ideology language "technically correct"?

Which FTM trans people don't feel comfortable with being called "trans men"?

I know what vaginismus is so no a guy shouldn’t be on a forum about it. He doesn’t have one. However if a trans female was on there and had the surgery or was having the surgery she should be allowed on it and I wouldn’t see a problem.

Because so many people confuse gender (which we have a choice over) and sex (which we dont) I find it convenient to distinguish between terms which describe gender (male & female are commonly used as descriptors of gender) and sex (man/woman/boy/girl). Or I suppose "masculine" or "feminine" are maybe more correct than male/female.

Only women (biological xx) have vaginas.

my irony meter just exploded. Male TRA have done nothing but stomp all over women's groups demanding their language and behavior change!!

My point exactly. Most posters on this thread want this groups trans inclusive language and behaviour changed, however are fighting against the language and behaviour of other groups being changed. Ironic indeed.

Male TRA have done nothing but stomp all over women's groups demanding their language and behavior change!!

This is a thing, Lemon. Do you think that's right? Do you think males should be in groups relating to female only health issues?

That's absolutely your choice. This groups admin obviously has a different view to you , and that is their choice too.

So what would be the "correct" way to refer to the group's members without offending anyone? Is that even possible? Maybe it's just better to aim at offending as few people as possible?

just as some women don't feel comfortable with the term 'cis woman', although its technically correct.

Its unnecessary to modify the sex description "woman". That's conflating gender with sex.

Women are women. Some present as male (transmen), some female. All nonetheless women with no Y chromosome.

Which FTM trans people don't feel comfortable with being called "trans men"?

What do you want? Names?

The terms 'cisgender' and 'transgender' are both technically correct. Not everyone is comfortable with using them though. Not difficult to understand really.