Do I have a right to be angry about this? (Trans related)

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Nc for obvious reasons. This is a very personal issue to me which I am understandably sensitive about, so this may be why I feel this way. I am perfectly happy to be told I AMBU! I believe trans people deserve love and respect and a happy life just like everyone else. So why did this concern and anger me?

I have a condition called vaginismus which has been very traumatic and caused me lots of grief over my life. In my eyes it is a very personal and female problem. (Look if up if you're not sure what it is).

I have tried to join a support group on a social media platform to really get to the bottom of it and sort it out. I wont say which one as dont want to 'out' either myself or the group involved. My request was pending and a message sent. I assumed this was to confirm I definitely suffer from this condition and to make sure I wasn't some strange pervert, but no! The administrator messaged me to say that before I was accepted I would have to answer a 'test question' as this is a gender inclusive group. Will I be addressing group members as 'ladies, men or everyone'. The tone felt quite aggressive and if I did not pass this test I would not be admitted.

My first thought was are men allowed to enter this group? Do I really have to speak about my vagina in front of 'everyone'? Why not say hello ladies (and the occasional transman who currently has issues with their vagina) no I have to address everyone? Wtf?

I honestly don't know what to think right now but this group clearly isn't for me. But maybe I just need some re-education?

Lemon - you seem so intent on arguing that women are not discriminated against

Saying that transgender people are discriminated against isn't saying that women aren't discriminated against. I have acknowledged that there is discrimination against women, of course there is.

People on this thread have refused to acknowledge that the op wanting to go onto a trans inclusive group and change it is discriminatory towards trans people though.

Not how we have gone from " its no big deal" to in fact discovering that the logical conclusion is that it puts a heck of alot of people in a position where they have to risk accusations, making a mistake, putting patients at risk, having to continually keep the lie up and the exhaustion that brings, akd not even knowing who or what they are looking for.

Its not really " nothing" is it

In a side room specifically set aside for preop transgender individuals (which is what I would have happen)

What a good idea. Because the NHS is not at all overstretched and having an extra room laying empty on all wards for the possible use of a very small percentage of the population is definitely going to happen. Back in the real world...

I don't know about this particular instance, so can't comment on that. I would likely put experience and age as some of the criteria. Oh that's handy...you are going to have to work out a very complicated algorithm to take into account age, experience, muscle tone, exposure to testosterone....ever think it might be a good idea just to stick with the tried and tested system that most people have no problem with?

There are no people who have been born with a vagina but no womb, ovaries etc?

There are no people who have been born without a vagina but with a womb?

You said There are all sorts of conditions where people wouldn't fit into whatever definition you would have of female. You don't have to be born with a womb to be female. Plenty of women don't have wombs or even aren't born with wombs. A uterus is a secondary sex organ - not having one does not change your sex. I am beginning to think that maybe you have no idea what you are talking about...

Why do you think there is sex segregation in sports lemon? Any ideas why almost every sport goes to all that trouble?

If you want to continue sex segregation in sports rather than finding a different way then trans individuals will keep being placed in those events.

In all honesty I don't know much about the rules and regulations around trans people in sports as my trans loved one isn't sporty so its not something that has impacted my life. But the world is changing and some things need to be changed, in a way fair to everyone to accommodate everyone.

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

Lemon - you seem so intent on arguing that women are not discriminated against

Saying that transgender people are discriminated against isn't saying that women aren't discriminated against. I have acknowledged that there is discrimination against women, of course there is.

People on this thread have refused to acknowledge that the op wanting to go onto a trans inclusive group and change it is discriminatory towards trans people though.

The op didn't want to go on to a trans inclusive group. They wanted to go on a private support group for a condition that only affects the female sex.

As for describing someone- hair can be cut; clothes can be changed; binders can be removed. That's why it's more helpful to start with immutable characteristics.

Not how we have gone from " its no big deal" to in fact discovering that the logical conclusion is that it puts a heck of alot of people in a position where they have to risk accusations, making a mistake, putting patients at risk, having to continually keep the lie up and the exhaustion that brings, akd not even knowing who or what they are looking for.

Its not really " nothing" is it

Quite.

If you want to continue sex segregation in sports rather than finding a different way then trans individuals will keep being placed in those events

Can I suggest you look at 2 resources: the women versus boys web page and Ross Tucker's summary report for world rugby.

In all sports, having been through male puberty confers a 10 to 50 % advantage over a baseline of female performance. Androgen blockers and cross sex hormones do not remove that advantage.

If you compare female Olympians against male US high school athletes, barring the steeplechase women would not win gold in any event and in most schoolboys would manage a clean sweep of the medals.

If you are in favour of the inclusion of transwomen in women's sport, you are in fact in favour of the end of women's sport.

Side rooms are like gold dust.

Do you think its fair to put drs in a position that puts them at risk of accusations?

They could be accused of anything from behind a curtain too.

In some hospitals they are, but there does need to be provision made for trans people. Just because you don't agree with them existing it doesn't mean they are going to go away.

Not how we have gone from " its no big deal" to in fact discovering that the logical conclusion is that it puts a heck of alot of people in a position where they have to risk accusations, making a mistake, putting patients at risk, having to continually keep the lie up and the exhaustion that brings, akd not even knowing who or what they are looking for.

Have we? Or did I say look at their notes? (Which doctors should be doing anyway)

Oh that's handy...you are going to have to work out a very complicated algorithm to take into account age, experience, muscle tone, exposure to testosterone....ever think it might be a good idea just to stick with the tried and tested system that most people have no problem with?

I'm not going to do anything, but the answer is to work out a new system of scoring or competing or have trans individuals compete.

You don't have to be born with a womb to be female. Plenty of women don't have wombs or even aren't born with wombs. A uterus is a secondary sex organ - not having one does not change your sex. I am beginning to think that maybe you have no idea what you are talking about...

There are no people who have been born with a vagina but no womb, ovaries etc?

There are no people who have been born without a vagina but with a womb?

Is what I said. I'm not sure which part of the reproductive system is the thing that defines female for you and gave a couple of examples. I know plenty of women are born without wombs, that was part of my point.

They could be accused of anything from behind a curtain too

When performing intimate exams a chaperone is called. To protect patient and dr.

What chaperone should trans people have?

When searching prison should female prison officers have to search male bodied people .

In Ireland male officers cant search anyone who says they are a woman . The female officers cant search in tact males.

So what should happen in order to ensure no one dies through drugs or weapons being brought in by prisoners no one can search?

Hello I think this is wrong and would like to know your view’s. lm mother of 2 and today I received a text message from my kids school telling me that they are not doing food vouchers instead they have got a food parcel for me to come and pick up .when I arrived to pick up the food parcel I was horrified to see quantity and what they have done to it instead of a tin of beans they have opened the beans and put them in a take away food container and put a bit of tuna in to a see threw container and the same with some cheese with no dates on them really how much does a tin of tuna ,beans ,or even cheese cost that they have to open them a share like that now with what is going on in the world and at home with this COVID-19 thing who’s to say that the person or person’s that was handled the food to share it hasn’t got COVID-19 and not showing no signs god for bid . I mean really the cost of school meals per child is £11 pound and the school is ok by sending parents home with opened food to give there children I really feel the hygiene hasn’t been up hold having spoken to my kids head teacher she was happy to say that it’s up to the school where or not the give out food vouchers or to give food I said that’s all very well but the food I received today was opened and the quantity didn’t amount to £11 pound or to the value of the £15 voucher there was not even £5 worth of food ,Mrs Helen nelson head teacher of Joesph’s cash primary school in Coventry went on to say to me well if your not happy with the food in the food parcel you don’t have to accept it now really I m lost for words

The op didn't want to go on to a trans inclusive group. They wanted to go on a private support group for a condition that only affects the female sex.

Which is trans inclusive, judging by the question. They may have trans men in the group and wish to be inclusive in their language.

As for describing someone- hair can be cut; clothes can be changed; binders can be removed. That's why it's more helpful to start with immutable characteristics.

So "My child who has DD breasts and a vagina but wears a binder and looks like and identifies as a stereotypical male" or "my child who has no breasts and a penis but wears a massive padded bra and is tucking their penis and wearing tight leggings" is more helpful than using my description?

Can I suggest you look at 2 resources: the women versus boys web page and Ross Tucker's summary report for world rugby.

I will have a read of them before I comment any further as this is an area I really don't know much about. Thanks for that.

When performing intimate exams a chaperone is called. To protect patient and dr.

What chaperone should trans people have?

They should be asked.

So what should happen in order to ensure no one dies through drugs or weapons being brought in by prisoners no one can search?

Off the top of my head I would suggest changing some of the rules so that prisoners have to specify if they wish the search to be done by a man or a woman, but it has to be done by one.

They should be asked

But thst places the drs in a difficult position. A male being asked to chaperone another male when examining a female patient puts both those drs at risk of accusations. They are examining a sexed body not an.identity

Ditto with the prison officers. A female officer should not be forced to examine a male bodied prisoner. Thats sexual harassment

As always, it's enlightening for people to see how trans ideologists will not concede one inch, lest everything unravels. Even to the point of saying really quite ludicrous things.

Ajd this actually happened in Ireland. As I said the male staff couldn't search a prisoner who identified as female.

The female staff cant search in tact males.

Prisoner was not searched besides a metal detector wand

This is where sex denial gets you

I'm not going to do anything, but the answer is to work out a new system of scoring or competing or have trans individuals compete.
They already can compete in their sex category. Why do you think they cannot?

I don't know much about the rules and regulations around trans people in sports as my trans loved one isn't sporty so its not something that has impacted my life
Translation: it doesn't affect me personally so I really couldn't give a shit if it ruins sports for women.

Off the top of my head I would suggest changing some of the rules so that prisoners have to specify if they wish the search to be done by a man or a woman,
Translation: Who cares about what the prison officer feels? It's all about the trans person here.

Perhaps a genderfluid police officer can volunteer to be in the correct gender mode to do a search at any given time?

Yes "they should be asked" isnt and answer is it because either a man is forced into examining a female . Or a woman is forced to touch a males body eveb if she doesn't want to.

But then the lib dems and Labour were all about asking male rapists which prison they want so..

I'm not sure which part of the reproductive system is the thing that defines female for you and gave a couple of examples. I know plenty of women are born without wombs, that was part of my point.

When did I say that parts of the reproductive system define female? I didn't, despite the fact that they are shared by the vast majority of women. Of course, women can be born without wombs. What makes a person female for you?

But thst places the drs in a difficult position. A male being asked to chaperone another male when examining a female patient puts both those drs at risk of accusations. They are examining a sexed body not an.identity

And the person with that body deserves a say in who examines and sees it.

Would you force a man who had been sexually abused by his dad (or woman by her mother) to be examined, or have their body looked at by someone they really didn't want.

I wouldn't advocate for a woman being examined by a transman with a beard who didn't have bottom surgery either just because their genitals match.

If someone is going to put two doctors at risk by making false accusations, they will do it regardless of who the doctors are.

Ditto with the prison officers. A female officer should not be forced to examine a male bodied prisoner. Thats sexual harassment

Nobody should be forced. If they are happy enough to do it, then that's fine.

Nobody should be forced. If they are happy enough to do it, then that's fine.
Why do you insist on answering every question as if there are unlimited resources in hospitals, an infinite number of binary fluid officials who are quite happy to do whatever they need to do? Could you just maybe address the real life problems that people have pointed out to you?

In Ireland they aren't allowed to

So what do u suggest.

State sanctioned sexual harassment of staff or acknowledging sex?

*gender fluid