Do I have a right to be angry about this? (Trans related)

[Nc109283485]

Nc for obvious reasons. This is a very personal issue to me which I am understandably sensitive about, so this may be why I feel this way. I am perfectly happy to be told I AMBU! I believe trans people deserve love and respect and a happy life just like everyone else. So why did this concern and anger me?

I have a condition called vaginismus which has been very traumatic and caused me lots of grief over my life. In my eyes it is a very personal and female problem. (Look if up if you're not sure what it is).

I have tried to join a support group on a social media platform to really get to the bottom of it and sort it out. I wont say which one as dont want to 'out' either myself or the group involved. My request was pending and a message sent. I assumed this was to confirm I definitely suffer from this condition and to make sure I wasn't some strange pervert, but no! The administrator messaged me to say that before I was accepted I would have to answer a 'test question' as this is a gender inclusive group. Will I be addressing group members as 'ladies, men or everyone'. The tone felt quite aggressive and if I did not pass this test I would not be admitted.

My first thought was are men allowed to enter this group? Do I really have to speak about my vagina in front of 'everyone'? Why not say hello ladies (and the occasional transman who currently has issues with their vagina) no I have to address everyone? Wtf?

I honestly don't know what to think right now but this group clearly isn't for me. But maybe I just need some re-education?

It's interesting that there is another thread on here at the moment from a woman who feels vulnerable walking through woodland on her own. Perhaps she hasn't realised yet that if she just adopts a neutral name and identifies as non-binary then she has nothing to worry about.

So when we find these people with bone transplants who refuse to answer to anyone who doesn't affirm, people who cared about them enough to spend hours in the dark and cold looking for them to help keep them.safe where do we then put them. Do we put a transman in a very vulnerable state in a hospital ward with adult males ?

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

Some males have vaginas.

No, they don't. Stop gaslighting.

What would make for a better society? Encouraging people with bodily dysmorphia to undergo ever more extensive surgery in pursuit of a delusion (an actual sex change as opposed to creating a simulacrum of the externally visible features of the opposite sex) that can never be realised?

Or encouraging a society where trans people could be comfortable and accepted as trans people? And everyone got treated fairly - no discrimination for jobs or housing for trans people, an acceptance that there are situations where biological sex matters more than gender identity (eg women's sport)?

I hope one day society will be a better place for trans people, then there won't need for ever more extensive surgeries. They will be able to have a group on Facebook where they can speak about their issues using neutral language in a comfortable way and not have to change to accommodate a new member.

Sports events should all be based on height, weight, muscle mass, and, of course ability (amount other things relevant to each particular sport) I would mix sport up in an ideal world (men and women of equal abilities competing with each other) and then there would be less pay inequality too.

well researched phenomenon which can only happen to females who have gestated a male baby. And that doesn't mean the woman becomes a man.

Thats why I said women can have male DNA in their brains. I didn't say it made them a man

I asked what made someone a female, and was told pelvis. I was then accused of wishing to rip peoples bones out because I said that pelvic surgery will be more widely available in the foreseeable future.

Why is there any need to change it at all?

So because things have been happening for years, they should remain the same to save rocking the boat?

It's interesting that there is another thread on here at the moment from a woman who feels vulnerable walking through woodland on her own.

Men and transmen and transwomen also feel vulnerable in situations such as this. I'm not sure what the relevance is tbh.

What makes someone an adult human female?

A reproductive system set up for the production of large gametes. The fact that the system may not be functional is irrelevant.

@CharlotteRose90

I know what vaginismus is so no a guy shouldn’t be on a forum about it. He doesn’t have one. However if a trans female was on there and had the surgery or was having the surgery she should be allowed on it and I wouldn’t see a problem.

Why, transwomen do not have vaginas. They have a cavity that has been created in the pelvic area. It is not a vagina. And over 95% of transwomen do not have surgery to remove their penis.

Do we put a transman in a very vulnerable state in a hospital ward with adult males ?

If anyone is in a very vulnerable state I would put them in a side room for the benefit of themselves and others.

Dependent entirely in one being available.

So if ones not available where do you put them

And who performs the examinations? Do you put msle drs in the position of accidentally examining a female patient with no chaperone.

How many male drs would be ok with that. Its for their own protection that chaperones are there to avoid false accusations as well as the safety of the female patients

I would mix sport up in an ideal world (men and women of equal abilities competing with each other) and then there would be less pay inequality too.

(Sings) Imagine all the people....nah...there would be less pay inequality because some of the men would count as women for the purposes of the gender pay gap. And guess what? When it comes to sport, if you put people into two groups bases on strength, stamina, weight etc, you are basically putting them into categories of male and female. Ever wondered why the trans women who are successfully competing against female competitors are frequently twenty years older? No, I don't expect you have.

Men and transmen and transwomen also feel vulnerable in situations such as this.
Some may do. But it is overwhelmingly women who have to take precautions to avoid male violence. TW may feel vulnerable but, at least in the UK, they are much safer than women. Trying to pretend that we are all the same is really insulting to all women who have been victims of VAWG.

A reproductive system set up for the production of large gametes. The fact that the system may not be functional is irrelevant.

The system may not be there at all in some cases.

There are all sorts of conditions where people wouldn't fit into whatever definition you would have of female.

Why am I singing The Twist?

Yet more failed points, challenged and backed off from. So much twisting.

Sport - my specialist subject, 2 degrees in exercise physiology. Sport has always separated male and female where there is a advantage in being one or the other. Height, weight, age etc are not enough... See over 100 years worth of science, observation and record achievements.

A reproductive system set up for the production of large gametes. The fact that the system may not be functional is irrelevant.

Indeed. But instead, because a very small number of humans sexually develop in an abnormal way, due to chromosome disorders or other medical issues in the womb, we're all expected to seriously believe, and demonstrate the belief, that Eddie Izzard can be a woman some days and a man others, and probably neither and both occasionally.

So if ones not available where do you put them

Where would I put a trans man who has had pelvic surgery? On the men's ward.

And those with a fully functioning vagina ?

And what ranges should they look at on blood tests ?

The male or the female remember its potentially fatal to look at the wrong one

There are all sorts of conditions where people wouldn't fit into whatever definition you would have of female.
There really aren't you know. Do you actually think that something amazing has been discoverd in the last decade that means we have been getting it wrong for the past few thousand years?

When it comes to sport, if you put people into two groups bases on strength, stamina, weight etc, you are basically putting them into categories of male and female.

Then whats the issue of working it that way then?

But it is overwhelmingly women who have to take precautions to avoid male violence.

I thought men were more likely to be victims of random violent attacks when out and about? I may be wrong there though. Cant Google and MN on this phone.

Yet more failed points, challenged and backed off from. So much twisting.

What points have I backed off from? If I have it has been an oversight on my part.

I have been accused a lot on this thread, but thought I would stick around as I am always reading complaints stating that people never stay around to defend their points. I absolutely have. You may not agree with what I'm saying or like what I am saying, but you can't accuse me of backing away from giving my views because I have been doing so, at length.

Its hard to agree with someone when they would not give accurate information to police in order to help locate them and stand by and let drs place themselves in positions that leave them open to law suits and then happily place an extremely vulnerable person who has equal risk of abuse from males as the rest of us women , in a male ward where there's a high risk that a dr or nurse in a hurry won't be scanning the charts fir whether its a man with a vagina or not and read blood results wrong to the point it could kill them.

How could anyone agree with that

Then whats the issue of working it that way then?
So you think it's perfectly fine for a 40 year old man to compete with 20 year old women? (Such as the weightlifter Lauren Hubbard). You don't think the twenty year olds who came second and third are justified in being pissed off that Lauren is able to compete at the same level because Lauren has gone through male puberty?

Read yourself back.

Male.DNA in female brains... But I didn't say that meant they were male. So what point where you making?

And others...

Lemon - you seem so intent on arguing that women are not discriminated against, that they have no reason to fear violence, that the gender pay gap could be eliminated by giving everyone a neutral name - does it not occur to you that if it really were that simple, women would have done it decades, if not centuries ago? Or do you just decide not to see discrimination?

Why do you think there is sex segregation in sports lemon? Any ideas why almost every sport goes to all that trouble?

And those with a fully functioning vagina

In a side room specifically set aside for preop transgender individuals (which is what I would have happen)

And what ranges should they look at on blood tests ?

Whatever range is written on their notes to look at.

There really aren't you know.

There are no people who have been born with a vagina but no womb, ovaries etc?

There are no people who have been born without a vagina but with a womb?

Its hard to agree with someone when they would not give accurate information to police in order to help locate them and stand by and let drs place themselves in positions that leave them open to law suits and then happily place an extremely vulnerable person who has equal risk of abuse from males as the rest of us women , in a male ward where there's a high risk that a dr or nurse in a hurry won't be scanning the charts fir whether its a man with a vagina or not and read blood results wrong to the point it could kill them.

I gave accurate information to the police.

People give false information to the doctors all the time, not just, or even mainly, transgender individuals.

Would you be happy with a post op transman, with beard, penis and testosterone on a ward with you?

So you think it's perfectly fine for a 40 year old man to compete with 20 year old women?

I don't know about this particular instance, so can't comment on that. I would likely put experience and age as some of the criteria.

Male.DNAin female brains... But I didn't say that meant they were male. So what pointwhereyou making?

If you read back what I wrote you will see the question I asked, which was asking what the criteria was for female. I was told that females cannot have male DNA and gave an example of male DNA being in a womans brain. I did say I couldn't recall why that happens sometimes. However the point is now irrelevant as I got the answer, which was pelvis, and now its having a reproductive system.

Side rooms are like gold dust.

Do you think its fair to put drs in a position that puts them at risk of accusations?