Coup on Capitol Hill (Trump#117)

[ZZTopGuitarSolo]

The ongoing Trump saga.

Continuing from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4110252-May-Hope-and-History-Rhyme-Trump-116

@IamTomHanks
Yes I completely take back my point. I didn't understand that Biden doesn't have any power yet.

But it still is very surprising light security.

Why aren't there more?

Hopefully because they need a certain amount of his Cabinet to stick around to invoke the 25th Amendment.

@IamTomHanks,
no, that's not how security is organised and controlled in Washington DC or anywhere else in the US.

And as for Republicans on the floor of the House calling the people who invaded the Capitol Building "antifa" - words fail me, but it is typical of the lies we have been fed since before Trump was inaugurated, that people have accepted without question because you don't expect the President of the United States to lie as he breathes and behave so disgracefully, yet his followers find it expedient to believe his blatant lies.

But it still is very surprising light security.

I will agree with you there. It's questionable why it was so light and I'm sure there will be investigations.

I hadnt realised that in the US elected presidents have to wait for a while before they have power. I thought Biden already had power. That's why I couldn't understand why he would have been so lax on security here

Blimey.

Honestly, I think Putin's an absolute genius. I can't help thinking he's a puppet master playing all of us. Maybe I give him too much credit but I certainly think he has been stirring things up from Moscow.

Had to go to bed and am just catching up. Got as far as the debates resuming and what strikes me is that it was all an unpleasant wake up call for some Republican politicians. They were happy to go along with Trumps fraud claims or even vocally support them in some cases when it was just state level politicians and grass root supporters getting hurt/needing protection as a result but now they've realised the violence can come right to their door.

It should never have got to that point though. Play with fire and you get burnt etc. And Pence and McConnell may be furious and may have accept the reality of a Biden presidency before yesterday but they still held put long enough before that to have been part of the problem. If there had been a firmer line earlier maybe it wouldn't have got to the point of Hawley and Cruz etc lodging objections?

Morning all. Woke up to the news of 4 people dead, trump not condemming the riots and Biden being certified.

no, that's not how security is organised and controlled in Washington DC or anywhere else in the US.

I've no idea who decides how much security is needed at Capitol Hill. Is it the Mayor of D.C. then?

I Agree Kendodd

I didn't understand that Biden doesn't have any power yet

Given that all that happened yesterday hinged on the fact these terrorists didn't want Biden voted in, I have no idea how on earth you couldn't know this.

Weird.

My own opinion, for what it’s worth, is that the Capitol police were left deliberately undermanned for the situation (I’m sure they had the usual number of officers on duty, just no extra). They then took a tactical decision given the overwhelming numbers not to use force in preventing the protestors from entering once it became clear that was there intention.

Any use of force in those circumstances could have triggered an absolute bloodbath - I have no doubt that some of the protestors will have been armed - DC law does not allow open carry, but concealed carry is allowed if you have a permit. Though let’s face it I doubt most of those protestors are from the DC area, and certainly won’t have been in possession of the right paperwork.

@Cacacoisfarraige - I've seen comments from people who've visited the Capitol Building to the effect that it is not that easy to find the Speaker's office and that the people who got there must have had help from Capitol "insiders", whoever they might be..

McConnell and Pence are furiously trying to cover their own arses.
They made trump s as a allowed him to be what he is. A Self absorbed grifter who would rather set the country on fire than lose face.

And Pence and McConnell may be furious and may have accept the reality of a Biden presidency before yesterday but they still held put long enough before that to have been part of the problem. If there had been a firmer line earlier maybe it wouldn't have got to the point of Hawley and Cruz etc lodging objections?

Agree absolutely. They contributed to this. They enabled him. I don't care a fig about Pence's anger at this, or McConnell's speech yesterday saying these objections were wrong. Too little too late

They had a few hours to look

I didn't understand that Biden doesn't have any power yet

Aka i have nfi what im talking about but im going to spout a lot of bollocks as if i do because its more important to share inaccurate crap than have a clue.

The lack of security around the city did make me wonder how much sympathy there might be within the security services, including leaders, for Trump and the protesters.

I can't imagine that low level of enforcement if the protesters had been black.

@Roussette

And Pence and McConnell may be furious and may have accept the reality of a Biden presidency before yesterday but they still held put long enough before that to have been part of the problem. If there had been a firmer line earlier maybe it wouldn't have got to the point of Hawley and Cruz etc lodging objections?

Agree absolutely. They contributed to this. They enabled him. I don't care a fig about Pence's anger at this, or McConnell's speech yesterday saying these objections were wrong. Too little too late

They are all complicit in today’s domestic terrorism.

I tend to save the hysteria for CNN reporters and as per my life's work, I look at both sides kiri

Perhaps consider this: every terrorist group is eventually invited to the table to discuss solutions. It might be after thousands of lives are lost or before, the process is the same. Consider the IRA - eventually there has been to be peace brokered, no matter how strong both sides feel about their particular position.
My view is that the US should aim to take this position sooner rather than later to avoid massive loss of life and irreparable damage to the country.
No one wins a war of hearts and minds with insults and calling people idiots.
Listening is not the same as enabling violence, acknowledging the 'other side' is not the same as condoning. These fixed cemented positions will have to move sometime, so it might be advisable to do so before there is all out civil war that serves nobody.

@IamTomHanks - this is a useful explanation www.fastcompany.com/90591789/who-is-in-charge-of-capitol-building-security-anyway-a-primer

Basically it’s about as bureaucratic as it can get.

@Flaxmeadow

A young woman was shot dead. People are saying she was possibly pregnant, as it looked like pregnancy wear[?] She looked very young, and wish I'd not seen the footage on twitter.

Whatever the rights and wrongs, young people can do rash things.

Yes, sad. She was climbing through the top part of some french doors, where the glass had already gone through. Then falls back into the hallway.

Was she one of the rioters or someone working in the building or something?

mathanxiety

There are 105 federal law enforcement agencies

Interesting post from you about the security forces. Something tells me there are too many! No wonder they couldn't organise protection of the Capitol building and the administration. Thank goodness it's more simple here. Police and military.