Coup on Capitol Hill (Trump#117)

[ZZTopGuitarSolo]

The ongoing Trump saga.

Continuing from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4110252-May-Hope-and-History-Rhyme-Trump-116

Live Colbert last night

@SimonJT

Three died of medical emergencies, I wonder what that specifically means.

It means they won Darwin Awards.

I know that last night it was reported that a 24 year old man had been taken to hospital after falling 30ft from scaffolding on the Capitol building.

There were plenty of Trump supporters who were doing dangerous and idiotic things to try and get into the building or to have their 15 minutes of fame.

mathanxiety

You don't get anywhere by calling half the population terrorists and idiots. You can not hope to unify a country by insulting them over and over again. I agree many may hold views of the old America etc, but you don't win people over by insulting them. You win them over with ideas and policies that include tradition - you win them over by respecting every view including ones that you do not agree with, and by showing the entire country that it is possible to modernise considerately.

All over the world we are seeing a backlash to the globalisation not just in the US but in every country. It was more striking to see the US version than perhaps the Swedish version. Nonetheless you don't fix disenchantment with yet more anger and violence, you fix it by sitting at the table and discussing a middle road.

How are they not being listened to? They've had DT for 4 years and could've voted him in again. People who storm government buildings don't get to be treated as victims.

Biden has constantly repeated those exact things: "I will be a President for all Americans..."

Respect every view? Even those of white supremacists?

Calling them terrorists isn't just a mindless insul, it's true.

@Icanseegreenshoots

The endless CNN coverage calling the protesters 'disgusting' 'terrorists' and all the rest is not helping at all. Do they not realise this will only add fuel to the flames? Ditto Biden's speech.

What actually needs to happen is dialogue at this stage, people incite violence and protest when they feel ignored, marginalised and unheard.

Biden needs to get a grip on this quickly. There are millions of disenchanted voters that feel seriously aggrieved. The right thing to do is to tell them that he stands for all of America, including them, and their needs will be listened to - they will continue to be represented and he will continue to unify the whole country. It is imperative that a mature and considered approach now takes place, otherwise the country can look forward to a civil war.

You have to take everyone with you - as far as possible. A fracture of this magnitude, does not need insults hurling around on live TV, screeching politicians adding to the chaos, but a thoughtful road map to bring these people back on board, to talk them down and show them that a Biden administration can and will be there for the whole country including them.

Let's not make Biden the bad guy here....

People who storm government buildings don't get to be treated as victims.

100% this.

Perhaps later on in life they can reflect on this day, and how this man has preyed on their weaknesses, their prejudices and venality, but not now. Not the brightest bulbs, either.

Congressman announces he's positive for Covid-19 four hours after voting on House floor.
CNN

You couldn't make it up.

The thing that struck me was the similarity to the BLM riots last year - people sick of the status quo demanding change, and willing to resort to (relatively) low-level criminality (trespassing in this case, vandalism and criminal damage in the BLM case) to highlight their point.

The only difference is in the media coverage: praise for the BLM people, condemnation for the Trump supporters. Exactly the sort of thing that causes the right to believe that the media is indeed biased and untrustworthy.

The media are more to blame than anyone for the incident seen yesterday. They blur the truth between fact and fiction, and have long since decided that emotion and presentation are more important than truth and fact.

The problem is that to solve the situation we need the media to be more honest, more open, more factual, more believable. None of which are conducive to profit it would seem.

I fear the scenes in Washington, DC yesterday will prove to be the tip of the iceberg. BLM protestors didn't just quietly go away, I doubt that the people who believe their democracy has been stolen from them will just quietly go away either. It's not just BAME people and the left who are sick and tired of this society.

The idea that Biden’s speech would add “fuel to the flames” is laughable.
If I see the word screeching in a MN post I generally flag the post as BU. Screeching teachers, screeching MILs, screeching politicians. It’s a word rarely used in RL and a screech is a very particular noise rarely heard in RL. But for some reason it’s very popular on MN as a signifier for “someone whose expressed opinions I don’t agree with”.

They aren't describing half the country as terrorists - just those that take pipe bombs to the Capitol.

The "listen to their disgruntlement, that's why they're behaving that way" argument is the language that enables domestic abusers.

There’s a balance between “listening” to people and ignoring their behaviour. At the very least a large number of people have committed trespass and carried out criminal damage, you can’t just say “there, there never mind you only did it because you felt unheard.”

You don’t reward bad behaviour, any sensible parent knows that. Yes you show love, compassion etc but that goes alongside setting boundaries and enforcing them.

If you take the 'hard position' of treating all Republicans like terrorists and racists, then you can literally expect the US to go up in flames, and I would not be so sure of what will be left at the end. We are talking about 50% of the population. It is not a handful of white supremacists, but half the entire nation.

I was disappointed in Biden's speech, but I am extremely hopeful he will make an outstanding President, sooner the better. He surely needs to know that whilst throwing the thugs that broke into Capitol Hill into prison for a very long time, he also needs to win over the respect and trust of those that didn't vote for him, if he is to avoid presiding over the worst civil war in American history. This is not about the thugs breaking glass - and vandalising institutions but stopping a much bigger, ever deepening, highly damaging fracture within society itself.

The only difference is in the media coverage:

The police response was a bit different too.

God I long for an ignore button.

@cbt944

God I long for an ignore button.

Seconded

It is not the responsibility of the democrats to sort this out. Although Biden will aim for a "coming together". It is the responsibility of the GOP to not have Trump as their candidate in the first place. And to not still be encouraging him and his supporters by having this vote today

If America "goes up in flames" who will be lighting the torches? Who will be fanning those flames? Be honest

contrmary Yes exactly that - I listened and watched the CNN coverage for a few hours as the situation unfolded, and it was staggering. There was no attempt to balance opinion, no effort whatsoever to discover why this action was happening. No balance of opinion. It was the most immature childish ranting of how unfair it all was, and insults being hurled by journalists for hours. I would not even call it journalism.

It was another fine example of how the politics, and by extension everything else has become so marginalised. Professional, considered journalism ditched and replaced with playground insults. It is simply only adding to the problems - petrol to the fire.

The analogy of comparing protesters to DV abusers is interesting. Many of the protesters there, most in fact, did nothing more than stand there with a flag, as they are entitled to do. A minority choose to break the law.

The police took hours to come, the army even longer. One must ask why? That was the most interesting element for me. It was why many were asking if it was indeed a coup.

I don't think you understand CNN. Do you understand Fox and Newsmax?

God I long for an ignore button

Summarising perfectly why we are where we are today.

You can not simply ignore every view that is different from yours. You fail to educate yourself in other views, and then you become myopic rather quickly. Incapable of assessing neutrally.

Biden needs to get a grip on this quickly. There are millions of disenchanted voters that feel seriously aggrieved. The right thing to do is to tell them that he stands for all of America, including them, and their needs will be listened to - they will continue to be represented and he will continue to unify the whole country
@Icanseegreenshoots
I have listened to nearly all Biden's speeches since he was voted in as President Elect. He cannot be criticised at this stage because if he's said it once, he's said ten times that he wants to be President for all people whether they voted for him or not. That he is listening. That he wants to bring people together. This is his aim and he has made it very clear.

however, yesterday he is allowed to be angry given what went on.

mathanxiety so agree with your last post.

I had to sleep after the night before being awake for Georgia. So now caught up with this thread and so impressed to see they are still completing the Process in the Chamber (or whatever it's called!)

The thing that bothers me most about the Trump presidency is that enough people supported him and voted for him to become President. The lack of intelligence and critical thinking is alarming. Sadly I see the same in our own media/social media, including often on Mumsnet (not on this thread!). So many people seem to believe everything they are read or are told.