How does the Irish middle class compare to ours

[Norfolker]

My sister in law is from the Republic & she says the class system in Ireland is there but less obvious than ours.. Not as many private schools but more subtle markers.
She also thinks their state education system is far superior so private schooling is unnecessary. Any Irish on here want to elaborate? I found it interesting.
YABU there is no difference between UK & ROI. Exact same class system no difference in markets.
YANBU different traits contribute to the Irish middle class system

Apologies to anyone from Carlow - I'm just joking.

@MissMarks

Burleycha- you may well have all been the same class but the vast majority of grammar schools in Northern Ireland are much more middle class than secondary schools- especially those with attached prep schools. A quick comparison for example of free school meal entitlement between a neighbouring secondary and a grammar demonstrates this- in the town I am from the grammar has less thank 1% and secondary more than 40%.

For added complexity ,in areas with more than one grammar school you often have 'classes' within the grammar schools.

Having said that, as a previous poster mentioned, it's very common for siblings to attend different schools, so I'd agree that on an individual family level the school attended doesn't say anything about class divisions even if statistically some schools are more middle class overall.

By classes within the grammar schools I mean that one grammar is viewed (although often incorrectly) as the 'posh' one and a neighbouring one as the 'normal' one.

Brother is a science teacher. Yes, they teach evolution

I assume aren't properly instructed on evolution/science as it goes against the ethos of the school?

What total bollocks. You’re embarrassing yourself by spouting such claptrap.

There's definitely indicators - although in my experience not of class as you'd think of it in England, more of what your religion is, where you're from etc. (places in Dublin 5km apart have tremendously different accents and expectations!).

So if I said for example that at my kids school they do Hockey - that would tell you a lot more about it if you know Ireland than if you don't.

😯😯😯 @Badwill

I had a standard convent school education in the late 70s and 80s, was taught by nuns in about half my primary classes, and with nuns as heads at both schools, and I can honestly say that, despite the prominence of religion in that education, it was pretty sophisticated compared to the Biblical literalist stuff DS was exposed to in his Cof E village school in England. The nuns did not teach Genesis as fact, and no one, not even the fanatical, elderly Sr Martin, who’d spent her life on ‘the missions’, ever said anything like ‘The Bible is beautiful because every word is literally true.’

I get entirely that not all C of E schools are like this, but I was taken aback that an Evangelical vicar (a young man) was able to have this impact in the 21st century, particularly in a very ethnically/cu,rurally-mixed school where many kids were Hindu, Sikh and Muslim. I’m assuming that if he had different C of E leanings, so would the school.

When we returned to Ireland, we sent DS to an Educate Together.

I agree, the bible wasn't even mentioned a lot but I think that's actually quite Catholic! Our head nun was formidable and very pro strong women. She was a former high level hockey player, ran a school of 1000 girls with hugely mixed backgrounds and certainly didn't expect us to become wives or even nuns. She could be a pain but we got a great grounding there.

@teaegg there are a growing number of ET secondary schools now. My son is at one. A lot of parents love it for primary but then return to the traditional models for secondary. I should name change now as they are rare enough that im outing myself.

i worried a little that my dc1 would be othered at her single sex catholic school but she has not been at all. None of the students care at all. She has had a great education. Leaving cert aside. She has been happy and made lovely friends. The chaplain is the only nun there now but she sounds like a strong woman living in the real world. My leg waxer told me she got a flat tyre, and who should pull up in her car and change the tyre for her, that same school chaplain.

My only issue with the irish education system is that it is too broad at lc level. My son cannot scrape a d in a foreign language. And that will affect his chance of success at 3rd level.
He is nearly 15 and already im hoping that he will be able to stay enthusiastic through the knock backs of it mattering so much that he cannot speak a word in any other language besides his first. He is v good at maths though and his sister was doing honours maths lc with him the other day and he was enjoying it. I feel it's unfair that he will have doors slammed in his face because he cannot pass irish or spanish. Oh well i cant worry about this right now. Worry about one child at a time.

oh to my surprise there are 19 ET secondary schools.

That's an awful pity. Has he hope or an exemption from Irish at all? Does he have to do a modern language to LC? If not can he not do pass Irish and not count it towards points?

Wow those ET secondaries have sprung up quickly m, the first one wasn't long ago.

I know, I honestly thought there were about 5 of them.

@HeyGirlHeyBoy

That's an awful pity. Has he hope or an exemption from Irish at all? Does he have to do a modern language to LC? If not can he not do pass Irish and not count it towards points?

I'm not sure what to do. I would like to spare him the torture of transition year (he's on the spectrum but it only shows up when he's out of his comfort zone. I know he should step out of his comfort zone gradually but not in a forced way. Transition year would be too much for him) but I was wondering if I could let him skip transition year somehow and work on Spanish. I don't think the school would be behind that plan. Even though, they've met him, they know that he is not going to be a good candidate for transition year!

@Danu2021 In certain cases (eg dyslexia) you can apply for exemptions from Irish, and also other languages I believe. NUI has these exemptions in place anyway (I think).

He does have an exemption from Irish already, luckily. He didn't speak english until he was four and a half. I had begun to wonder if he would ever speak. And then he roared at his sister one day ''out of my room!''. Most kids have a first word! He waited til he was four and a half and gave us a first sentence! So his brain just isn't wired for a foreign language.

I'm sure there'll be a route to third level. I see they have lowered the age of a mature student to 23. Maybe he could work for a few years until he can apply as a mature student. The thoughts of him living at home all that time make me jittery!

I’m a knobhead from Dalkey (nice to meet you @Hatstrategicallydipped ) and have been living in the U.K. for about 20 years. There is definitely a class system in Ireland but would agree that the ‘notions’ thing is real. My friends and I would regularly identify as being from Dun Laoghaire to avoid being badged as ‘knobheads from Dalkey) so I think it works in the opposite direction to the U.K.
I may have missed someone saying it but the reason private schools in Ireland are cheaper is that all full time qualified teachers are paid by the state, so you’re getting extras in terms of part time teachers and other resources in private schools. That certainly was the case. I think the LC is a much better system than A Levels - you have more choice in subjects until you’re older. It’s why I hope to find a school where my kids can do the I.B. here....although we’re currently contemplating Brexiting so they may end up doing the LC after all.

The only way you can skip would be to change school.. Has he done Spanish to junior? I think a modern language doable to prep really, assuming as I say it is essential to do it. The variety suited me but I appreciate it's not for all. My DN also in an ET and also autistic, haven't heard them discuss TY as yet. There might be some cool modules provided that he might like.

No only a percentage are paid by the state and only at secondary level.

[quote LizzieAnt]@Danu2021 In certain cases (eg dyslexia) you can apply for exemptions from Irish, and also other languages I believe. NUI has these exemptions in place anyway (I think).[/quote]
This is encouraging. Do they still require a D in another language?
But honestly, I should cool my jets and stop worrying!

@HeyGirlHeyBoy he's in the 'nt' part of the school but I would hope that they won't expect him to organise three work placements for himself! That will not happen. He won't open the front door to the takeaway delivery ykwim?

I do understand that transition year is great/can be great if you're ready to step out of your comfort zone. But if the students are nowhere near that 'cusp' then .......... it just makes them feel a bit shit.

Students with specific learning difficulties affecting language acquisition (dyslexia) may apply for exemption from the Third Language requirement. To apply for an exemption, it is necessary to send in a completed Exemption Application Form and other relevant material.
From the NUI website.

I organised two out of three of my first dc's work placements for transition year. The third one, she sat in bed for the week.

That was a busy year for me :-p

@LizzieAnt

Students with specific learning difficulties affecting language acquisition (dyslexia) may apply for exemption from the Third Language requirement. To apply for an exemption, it is necessary to send in a completed Exemption Application Form and other relevant material. From the NUI website.

Thanks @LizzieAnt that is a relief. He doesn't have dyslexia but hopefully, there will be a route in. His written English is very good and if he sees a word once he'll remember how it's spelt so it was difficult getting the irish exemption.