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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Opinions you have that aren't popular on mumsnet(2)

999 replies

Lockdowner35 · 03/01/2021 15:58

As the last thread reached 1000 posts

I will start

Jo Swinson would have do a better job than Boris on Coronavirus

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/01/2021 00:00

Plenty of MTF trans people are really quite enamoured of their penises in my experience. I'm not the one advocating for harsh surgery.

They're all male. The same sex class as all other males. And how do women begin to tell the difference between MTF trans people who are "genuine" (a concept I don't buy into because their motivations for invading female spaces aren't of interest to me, just that they do) and those who are not?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/01/2021 00:00

That's how annoying it is when second wave feminists ignore poststructuralism.

Grin
DioneTheDiabolist · 12/01/2021 00:03

People post specific inaccuracies and other people will challenge themDione.
I'm not talking about people posting inaccuracies.HmmConfused

There certainly seems to be a mantra though @Ereshkigalangcleg.Wink

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/01/2021 00:04

I'm not talking about people posting inaccuracies.

I am, Dione, as I said Smile

FreshFancyFrogglette · 12/01/2021 00:12

I don't think we should have hijacked the thread. It's just I'm fairly new to mn, and I've never actually seen any transphobia. I've never spoken to anyone who doesnt believe that people should be granted the right to use whichever bathroom they legitimately feel comfortable in.

If we replaced trans with any other strata, and then had to talk this way, there would be uproar. I don't like to see discrimination against anyone, it makes me sad. A friend of mine was trans female, they killed themselves. Very hard to exist as trans in this world apparently! Hopefully in the future there will be more legal protection for trans rights, the same way there now is for women, different nationalities, races, disabilities and LGB identities.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/01/2021 00:16

I've never spoken to anyone who doesnt believe that people should be granted the right to use whichever bathroom they legitimately feel comfortable in.

You have, I promise you. Because most people believe in single sex spaces under certain circumstances. They might not have mentioned it to you, mind.

FreshFancyFrogglette · 12/01/2021 00:20

Your last post just baffles me Confused you talk earlier about privacy, dignity and respect. Yet have no problem demanding to know what's inside the underwear of trans females. And whether they are "genuine" or not 😳. They are not aliens, and they are not "invading". At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what you think, if we live in any kind of progressive society the law will eventually protect trans rights, as it is morally bound to do so.

FreshFancyFrogglette · 12/01/2021 00:23

Erish they may believe in single sex spaces, but not in denying personal autonomy when deciding which space they belong to.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/01/2021 00:23

I told you, some people make a distinction between different groups of MTF trans people. I don't. I'm much more concerned about the rights of women and girls to privacy and dignity than the feelings of individual males. This isn't just about toilets.

The law adequately protects trans rights in this country. Unfortunately that isn't enough for many activists, and women must lose our sex based rights, language and spaces. As an oppressed group of people. How is that right?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/01/2021 00:28

Erish they may believe in single sex spaces, but not in denying personal autonomy when deciding which space they belong to.

Polls would suggest you are mistaken. Women really do want to keep single sex spaces, when this is spelled out to them. And men do, but it's not quite the same. It's not up to individuals to decide what they feel like doing at any given time. They need to respect other users of the space. Any male person who cared about women would use the correct space for their sex, or a mixed sex space, such as an individual cubicle.

DioneTheDiabolist · 12/01/2021 00:31

As upsetting and discombubulating as it may be, I was responding to the thread title. Not talking about you personally @Ereshkigalangcleg.🤣🤣🤣

Soz for not centering you in my posts.Blush

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/01/2021 00:32

Don't worry, I'm used to not being centred, Dione Smile did wonder about the c-word right after my post, that's all. Glad you weren't referring to me!

MissingLinker · 12/01/2021 00:44

@FreshFancyFrogglette

I don't think we should have hijacked the thread. It's just I'm fairly new to mn, and I've never actually seen any transphobia. I've never spoken to anyone who doesnt believe that people should be granted the right to use whichever bathroom they legitimately feel comfortable in.

If we replaced trans with any other strata, and then had to talk this way, there would be uproar. I don't like to see discrimination against anyone, it makes me sad. A friend of mine was trans female, they killed themselves. Very hard to exist as trans in this world apparently! Hopefully in the future there will be more legal protection for trans rights, the same way there now is for women, different nationalities, races, disabilities and LGB identities.

I don't doubt for a second that it is difficult feeling such strong sexual dysphoria that you believe that you are actually a member of the opposite sex. I recognise that there are people for whom the most helpful course of action, for them at least, would be to live and be recognised as a member of the opposite sex. And if it really was the case that the only males wanting to use our toilets and changing rooms were those who'd had the surgery and the hormone therapy because to live otherwise would be nye on impossible... I'd have probably said "Alright, fine then."

However, that is not the current narrative. The mainstream trans narrative has many, many flaws. At the moment we have adult males with no intention of ever having genital reassignment surgery demanding that they be allowed into changing rooms and refuges with us.
Because to go in the men's would feel wrong. It would be triggering. But to retain your penis and testicles? Absolutely fine.

And then to demand that teenagers be allowed into puberty blockers, asserting that if children aren't allowed them, they'll probably kill themselves. Conveniently overlooking the fact that many trans women (and trans men, I presume) who have never taken blockers are asserting that they are a man or a woman based on how they FEEL and that everyone else must go along with it. So young teens (including a massively disproportionate amount of ASD girls) have to take frankly dangerous medication in order to be affirmed but all a grown man has to do to feel affirmed is to assert he is a woman and strong arm others into nodding along.

And what is a woman? I don't identify as a woman, I know it to be true by the fact that I have female anatomy, that I went through female puberty, that I menstruate, that I have been pregnant and given birth and breastfed. And I should clarify, before you come out with "But not all women menstruate." If you menstruate, you are a woman. As you are if you become pregnant and give birth.
So, what do I have in common with a male who says he's a woman that I wouldn't have with any other male? If trans women are women- why, exactly?

TeenyTinyDustinHoffman · 12/01/2021 00:52

@FreshFancyFrogglette

Your last post just baffles me Confused you talk earlier about privacy, dignity and respect. Yet have no problem demanding to know what's inside the underwear of trans females. And whether they are "genuine" or not 😳. They are not aliens, and they are not "invading". At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what you think, if we live in any kind of progressive society the law will eventually protect trans rights, as it is morally bound to do so.
If I go into a female communal changing room (as I would do on at least a weekly basis going swimming in non Covid times) and I see a man in there. Quite a big, tall man. And I tell him that this is the women's changing rooms. And he tells me that he is a woman. He is obviously male. He refuses to leave when I ask him. And I don't want to get changed in there with him. Am I wrong, here, to want a female only changing room? If I were to go and fetch a member of staff, should they tell the man to leave or should they tell me not to be a bigot and to accept the man as a woman?
Apollo440 · 12/01/2021 01:53

MissingLinker
If trans women are women- why, exactly?

Yes. Exactly how. We never get a coherent answer.
I'm afraid you'd have to subscribe to the quasi religious belief in gendered souls and accept the truth as gospel because no trans activist can provide an answer.
Oh sorry. That's not strictly true. I asked about Karen White (the rapist) and if they believed they were a woman and was told 'yes and "she' was an example that women can do bad things too'. No arguing with that logic.

SendHelp30 · 12/01/2021 07:44

Trans women aren’t women; they’re men.

It’s not the governments or the schools responsibility to feed your child(ren) if you can’t afford them, don’t have them. If your situation changes, you sort it out. We are such an entitled nation.

Unless you have a disability or medical conditions; you should only be allowed to receive benefits for 6 months, after which time; you will be given a job you have no say in. 6 months is plenty of time. People who cannot find work in that amount of time are being choosy. It’s not about what you want in life at that point, it’s about paying your own way.

yearinyearout · 12/01/2021 07:45

That it's fine to drive somewhere 15 miles away for a walk in lockdown 🙄

Pluckedpencil · 12/01/2021 07:51

Generally, people who own dogs either like dogs more than people or have one out of selfishness.

VinylDetective · 12/01/2021 09:57

I definitely like dogs more than people. Why is it any more “selfish” to own a dog than have children?

HPLikecraft · 12/01/2021 10:22

@Pluckedpencil

Generally, people who own dogs either like dogs more than people or have one out of selfishness.
Interesting. Is it less selfish to have any other pet, or is it pet ownership in general that's selfish?
FedUpAtHomeTroels · 12/01/2021 11:07

Lots of parents are afraid to actually parent their kids and let them rule the roost.
Your kids need you to parent and set firm boundaries, not be their friend. It makes for confident secure kids/teens.

Orlania · 12/01/2021 12:57

Lots of parents are afraid to actually parent their kids and let them rule the roost.

True dat.

ShesMadeATwatOfMePam · 12/01/2021 17:37

I think it's weird that some vegans have pets.

VinylDetective · 12/01/2021 17:40

@ShesMadeATwatOfMePam

I think it's weird that some vegans have pets.
You do know they don’t eat them?
mumnowformerrockstar · 12/01/2021 21:59

Baylis and Harding hand soaps are lovely

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