Opinions you have that aren't popular on mumsnet(2)

[Lockdowner35]

As the last thread reached 1000 posts

I will start

Jo Swinson would have do a better job than Boris on Coronavirus

The penis itself doesn't dictate a patrichal attitude

Maybe not, but it does dictate your sex.

@Alittlepotofrosie

My unpopular opinion is that it's really, really fucking tedious how every thread has to descend into the trans debate. If you've seen one, you've seen them all.

Fair enough, I thought I was replying to a thread in FWR when I posted. I’ll drop it.

Obligatory unpopular opinion to make up for it: vegans in real life are totally normal people and I don’t mind making them vegan food if they visit. I don’t think that obliges them to feed me meat.

@FreshFancyFrogglette

Erk and orlania. I have not misunderstood it at all. Your understanding is rooted in an outdated belief system. Recent studies show a spectrum of male to female attributes, rather than an either/or.

It stems from lanugaue, culture and social conditioning. The penis itself doesn't dictate a patrichal attitude, any more than a stomach does.

The penis is rather involved in the raping of women, isn't it? And, sad as it may be, the humans that the penises are attached to are still influenced by a culture which tells them that women owe them sex. And some will rape women. Not all, obviously, but enough for this to be a serious problem. That's before you take into account the fact that the penis owners are also responsible for the majority of violent crime against women and for the domestic abuse which kills 3 women a week. And there is no evidence to suggest that males who identify as women are considerably less likely than other males to commit these crimes (a post op trans woman would be unable to rape but the vast majority have no surgery at all). So, on that basis, I don't want a male, however he identifies in female changing rooms or refuges or prisons.

Elizabeth isn’t a nice name

Mislinker I think that the damage caused by excluding trans women is greater than the risk posed by including them. A predator is a predator, regardless of trans status. They need to be prevented from offending accordingly, and if they do offend they need to be punished accordingly. Preventing violence against women comes from teaching respect, and an end to gender war. Not perpetuating it through attention to difference.

It's not just about physical risk, it's about privacy, dignity and sexual harassment too. For women.

This isn't about people being "trans" or "different". It's about them being male, and women's sex-based rights.

I think that the damage caused by excluding trans women is greater than the risk posed by including them. A predator is a predator, regardless of trans status. They need to be prevented from offending accordingly, and if they do offend they need to be punished accordingly. Preventing violence against women comes from teaching respect, and an end to gender war. Not perpetuating it through attention to difference

Can you really not understand though how allowing trans women who are possibly predators to easily access women’s spaces might not be a good idea? Think about it...

anyone can be a predator.

this argument doesn't work.

Too many possibly Robbie bobtail. What about a muscly woman with a dildo? Should we ban muscly women and dildos?

Erish, why is a trans woman more likely to commit sexual harassment against a woman than a non trans woman? Because they have a penis? No. U can't include trans women in male statistics. They are not male. Men don't go out wishing they had no penis, on the contrary, they tend to be quite fond of them!!

*too many possibles!

I think if you tot up the number of female on female sexual assaults with dildos, and compare it to the amount of male on female sexual assaults, you'll have your answer.

Erish, why is a trans woman more likely to commit sexual harassment against a woman than a non trans woman? Because they have a penis? No. U can't include trans women in male statistics. They are not male. Men don't go out wishing they had no penis, on the contrary, they tend to be quite fond of them!!

In what sense aren't they male? They literally are male. It's not an identity word, it's biological sex. They are more likely to commit sexual harassment against women than a woman because they are male and most are heterosexual. That's all. Penis or no penis.

And to think JK Rowling was repeatedly told that no one said there was no such thing as biological sex.

Of course crimes committed by people with penises should be recorded as crimes committed by males. Otherwise the statistics are false

Wiseowl and elish I'm not disputing that, I am however disputing that everyone who has a penis can be categorised as male, and lumped together with high stats for sex offending. Transfemale is its own classification, and rightly so! We've already established that it's not because of the penis that men rape, they rape with it, but not because of it.. It is a case of correlation, not a causation.

The causes of rape are largely believed to be deep seated misogyny, patriarchal conditioning, and depersonalisation of the victim(s) . Trans women may still have their penis, but they don't share deep seated misogyny, patriarchal conditioning or a belief that women are other, or less, than themselves. In fact often quite the opposite of all these, they actually identify as sharing an identity with women. They have not internalised the pressure to perform a male gender. They don't celebrate their penis, they often want it removed entirely. Given the radically different psychology of such individuals, particularly in relation to relevant causes of rape, I don't think it's fair, or right, that when analysing who is likely to be a sexual predator, trans women are lumped together with male stats. As usual with stats, they don't go far enough to explain the nuances behind their conclusions.

Too many possibly Robbie bobtail. What about a muscly woman with a dildo? Should we ban muscly women and dildos?

One of the stupidest things I’ve ever read on mumsnet. Are you very naive or just young?

One of the stupidest things I’ve ever read on mumsnet. Are you very naive or just young?

Indeed, when you dig a little deeper it does expose the stupidity of the trans rights arguments. Which is great, as it's right here for everyone to see.

I don't agree that MTF trans people are in any way radically different to other males. Also you're still ignoring women's privacy, dignity, comfort and feelings. So there's that.

People are different and that is a good thing. We should celebrate/ acknowledge/ ignore that difference. Not be bitchplopping cunts on threads that aren't to personal taste.🤷‍♀️

Robbybobtail I was illustrating how stupid your argument sounds to me. I used a hypothetical. You want trans women banned from female bathrooms, simply because they posses an organ that could be used to rape. You've totally ignored any evidence that dictates how likely they are to actually do so. You are simply not inelterested. You've got an opinion about men, and despite obvious differences yiu are determined to lump transwomen in with them.

People post specific inaccuracies and other people will challenge them Dione 🤷🏻‍♀️ perhaps they should have just stuck to the mantra.

Erish how are they not radically different? Do u meet many men who prefer to imagine life without their penis?? And looking as feminine as possible? If you don't believe that transwomen are different to men then you need to educate yourself a bit.

Erish perhaps you shouldn't have stopped studying feminism. The debate has moved forward. You can't just pick the point at which you became interested, and ignore all further developments in research. There's been a massive shift in understanding. Take how frustrated you are when people discredit the notion of patriarchy? That's how annoying it is when second wave feminists ignore poststructuralism.