AIBU to think homesickness is no excuse for moving to a different country away from your child?

[SaucyHorse]

Excluding very temporary arrangements, which I understand could be the right choice even if difficult, I can't understand how anyone could do it. And I don't mean moving between neighbouring countries with land borders so that it might not actually be that far.

My friend and I are both immigrants. We both have children with natives of the country we moved to. My friend left the mother of his child a few months after he was born, but so far has been co-parenting his son quite well with his ex. The boy is now 10 and my friend is making noises about moving back to his home country (3 hour flight away) because he's just so homesick and he can't bear it any more. He is a citizen here, speaks the language, has a good job and a wife who is also a native of this country, so he's well 'integrated' if you want to call it that. His ex is obviously going to be staying here with his son no matter what he decides.

I just couldn't imagine even considering moving away from my children. DH and I are still together so it's different, but when I chose to have children in this country with a native of this country I knew that I could never move away unless we all went together. I committed to that and if we ever did split, I'd be staying here no matter what because I couldn't live in a different country to my children, at least before they reach adulthood. And my friend's son was planned but even if he wasn't, when you're a parent you have responsibilities.

I said to him something along the lines of yes, that must be difficult, but there's not really anything you can do about it because of your son, but he just sort of uhmed and ahed about it.

Am I being unreasonably judgmental to think that a parent shouldn't even have this option on the table, or at least not for something like homesickness? In my experience as an immigrant, homesickness can come in waves occasionally, but it passes, and it's usually a case of rose-tinted spectacles anyway. I can understand wanting to be closer to parents, siblings etc. but not at the expense of being so much further from your actual child.

I cannot imagine leaving a 10yr old to grow up with the idea that they weren’t enough to keep their parent in the same country as them.

Because that’s what this is IMO.

That is not going to make for a happy adolescence.

Sadly not everyone views their children as the OP does. I think it is a very bad idea, but can understand someone wanting to leave this country if possible.

I think it entirely depends on how he's planning to maintain contact with his child. I used to run into a man fairly often with his DS. He was divorced and although he was english, he had accepted a well paid job in Dubai.. his DS was very young. He was returning to the UK often - I think every 2 or 3 weeks. It was expensive and tiring but he told me that he didn't want to reduce further the time he spent with his child and reading between the lines, I think the cost was still worth it as he was earning so well in Dubai.

Then you have a friend of my brother's who decided to accept a job on the other side of the world when he divorced his wife (after he had an affair). As far as I'm aware, he's returned to visit his children a max of once a year. His ex has, kindly, taken the DC to him a few times too. He has basically abdicated all responsibility for his children and I hope I never see him again as I don't think I could look him in the eye and be polite.

My dad lived 3 hours away from me (in the same country) when I was growing up. I got to see him in the summer holidays and at Christmas. I have a good relationship with him as an adult, but the setup is really not ideal. Growing up, I knew he loved me, but I also learned to have very low expectations of my parents; not to ask much of them, as I was the inconvenient error in their early lives. They would never have said anything like that, but, for example, I couldn't go to my dad's wedding, as it was in term time. The priorities were obvious.

I'm an immigrant too and know that it can be difficult. Having had this experience, I wouldn't have taken the kids away from their dad, let alone going away myself. Not just because I wouldn't want them to have that experience - also because my childhood trained me to swallow my feelings, put myself second and have low expectations.

Depends on the situation! My husband has a child with someone else - she is from a different European country - they had been living together in the U.K. pre baby - she decided she wanted to have baby in her home country - so moved back - he followed a few months later - they had the baby - their relationship was rocky, he hated living there, struggled to get a decent job - she broke up with him! He was very alienated - not earning enough to get his own place so had to stay at hers was all very toxic - made difficult decision to leave and come back to U.K., went back to university, got his degree, got a decent job here and in ore Covid times went back and forth to see his son as much as possible - his son now comes to us as much as he can now he’s big enough to fly alone! He stays for the whole summer with us sometimes and alternate Christmas and Easter breaks

It was the right thing for him to do - staying there would have been the wrong decision - my husband was in a state of depression over there, and it just wasn’t working.

At first glance he appears very selfish but perhaps only to those who have no experience of just how heavy-going it can be to be an immigrant. I've seen so many migrant women feel trapped and deeply miserable after a divorce from their native spouse, why not have a meaningful conversation about the long-term options, even if they never happen? Who knows whether or not the child would like to live in the other country for a year or two? "Kid stays, end of" may be the right solution, or it may just be wanting to have it all.

As someone else said homesickness shouldn't be underestimated, in my case it was so bad it led to anxiety and panic attacks. The feelings of loneliness and not belonging were overwhelming.
While I agree leaving a child is not the best thing to do the feeling of having to just go can be very powerful.

@Waxonwaxoff0
Moving to another country is opting out of parenting.

Not necessarily. Families I know co-parent very well despite being in different countries. The child stays with one parent for school terms and the other for the summer and some holidays. When young, they can even swap which parent has them for school terms and the other for summers/holidays as there are international schools almost anywhere. So the child gets to live for months at a time with both parents. I don’t see how this is not parenting.

And furthermore, I don’t see how a weekend every other week that a local ex/nonresident parent would get is automatically better parenting or better for the child?

I feel so sad for all these children who don’t get to spend their summer/school holidays/weekends with their school friends, neighbour friends, extra curricular friends because one of their parents moved far away.

ThursdayLastWeek
I cannot imagine leaving a 10yr old to grow up with the idea that they weren’t enough to keep their parent in the same country as them.

Because that’s what this is IMO.

That is not going to make for a happy adolescence

I agree. This is my 16 year old DD's reality, Thursday . Her DF told her at 14 he was moving to another country to pursue his dream life (he's a wannabe Dick Strawbridge )

She was absolutely devastated. She felt completely that he didn't place any value on his role as her Dad or her wellbeing.

International plane travel hours are completely different to same country travel hours as PPs have illustrated.

My DD is the youngest of his 3 DC (elder 2 half siblings in 20s). She knew just how much her DF did for her siblings during their teenage / young adult lives and his decision to abdicate his role in her teenage / young adult life was so hurtful.

He has chosen the role of visitor in her life, but what she wants and needs is father who can do all the things a parent does day to day. And given events over the last 12 months, he hasn't been in the position to even do that.

I am perfectly happy to fulfill all the practical parenting responsibilities but it has caused her immense pain and knocked her sense of security enormously, to the point of needing counselling.

I fully accept that every situation and every child is different, but it is a decision that is not without risk.

A 3-hour flight is very different from a 3-hour drive. As another poster pointed out, unless the child lives in the airport, there's going to be additional travel time. 10 year old me would've hated having to get a flight by myself. It's very different from your dad coming to pick you up in the car.

I also think it's unfair that the child misses out on spending holidays with their friends and doing hobbies because they're visiting the parent that moved. It's also unfair that the resident parent has to do all of the hard work during the term time, while the other parent gets to be the 'cool parent' with their child coming to see them only for the holidays, which is much more relaxed and fun

Is it any worse than EOW if regular holiday contact is maintained? Several week blocks in the holidays can still provide quality contact compared to EOW if they live relatively close. Even living say 1 hour away can still make it difficult for DC to see their friends so realistically 3 hours on a plane isn't necessarily bad.

I think some pp have put their finger on the crucial point here when they asked if we'd judge a mother who did this as leniently as a father.

Thinking of a young man I know whose father has always lived abroad for career reasons. They have spent his holidays together, they've done lovely things together and he loves his father deeply. But he also feels very deeply the fact that his father didn't care enough about being part of his everyday to put other concerns second. He is envious of contemporaries from split families whose parents went to great lengths to stay as close as possible, whose fathers would have regarded being far from their children as the worst thing that could happen.

And he is very, very aware that he only had a good childhood because his mother prioritised him, because she was there not just in the holidays, but in the boring term time, making sure he did his homework, getting him to school on time, looking after him while she was at work. He had a lovely holiday relationship with his dad- but it always was a holiday relationship.

(And yes, I am an immigrant and I was very, very lonely and depressed during my first few years in this country. But once I had children, my first commitment was to them).

One of my good friends was dumped by both his parents aged 12 or 13. Mum fucked off to a new job oversees, Dad couldn't be arsed so dumped the son on his own mother whilst living in the same town. This was around the time we became friends and it was horrible to watch. Parents refuse to be called Mum and Dad, he had to call them by their names!

25 years later, he has built a great life for himself but at what cost? Having seen how that played out, I could never condone it. What a pair of twats they both are.

I think some pp have put their finger on the crucial point here when they asked if we'd judge a mother who did this as leniently as a father.

To me this is more of a distraction than the real point. It derails the thread into a hypothetical would people be sexist or not discussion. When obviously, some people are sexist and so some would judge a mother more harshly than a father. But ultimately so what. The real point isn’t which sex gets judged more harshly, but whether we should be judging parents who do this due to being an immigrant who is desperately unhappy and needs/wants to return to their home country even if it means leaving behind a child.

When my parents split up my dad moved two miles away and I hardly ever saw him again!

Sounds like another example of a shitty man putting his own needs and desires first.

My DF did this when I was 15 and my youngest DSis was 9 giving us 24 hrs notice. He "needed" a fresh start after my parents divorced and missed his family (mother who undermined my DM at every opportunity). I was devastated but my poor sister never really built a relationship with him. We saw him twice a year for the first few years and then he remarried, had 2 further children and it was more difficult for him to come to us. We all just drifted away from him.
I still find it hard to trust people.

I think people on this thread are putting in the same bag many different situations.
One where the father just wants to move away for his own convenience, start a new job, live the high life.
One where he just doesn’t care about his dcs and would t see them anyway, even if he was living 2 miles away and is basically checking out.
And one where the parent in question is struggling like heel to live in the uk (whatever the reason. Incl the fact they might have never settled down in said country despite all appearances).

None of those situation is comparable and we have no idea where the guy the OP is talking about actually stands.

and I was very, very lonely and depressed during my first few years in this country. But once I had children, my first commitment was to them

@corythatwas, tbf Thats thé sort of situation where you wouldn't want to bring a child into the mix tbh. Not when you are unhappy in said country in the first place and have a child with one of the natives.

It’s very different than seeing your feelings about the country change because of politics/hostile environment and the likes.
It’s different than suddenly not feeling you belong at all because your marriage has broken down and that was what really linked you to that country.
It’s also not the same to be unhappy and deeply depressed. You can mask being unhappy but a depressed parent isn’t much fun for the child either tbh.

One word about how hard it would be to go from the U.K. to Spain... that’s brexit for you. Making it harder for eu/uK citizens in more than one way :(:(

I feel so sad for all these children who don’t get to spend their summer/school holidays/weekends with their school friends, neighbour friends, extra curricular friends because one of their parents moved far away.

I grew up with both my parents but lived very rurally so didn't have any neighbours or easy access to school friends at weekends. I didn't have close friends from any of my activities. Everyone's lives are different.

@Hopdathelf

Homesickness is not to be underestimated

I agree. It’s bent so easy, even if you don’t travel home regularly, to at least know you could go.

I wouldn’t judge anyone for this, especially now.

How come you call the country you were born in "home"? Isn't your home where you actually live and where your family (husband, children) live?

People should think long and hard before getting into international relationships, reproducing outside their home country and putting down these semi-permanent roots.

The trouble is the lack of crystal ball. Yes. people should think long and hard before putting down roots. However, it is impossible to know how you will react when the circumstances change. We are in the process of considering relocating to my partners homecountry. The idea relocating there getting married, having kids, buying a house is very different from living there while divorced, seeing kid every other weekend, ex having a new partner and living happily alongside their extended family. It most definately is shit if other parent moves. But I also don't think they should stay if it makes them absolutely miserable and assuming they have done their best and have a solid plan in place. There are people who get so homesick that they commit suicide. It is not about being able to see parents everyday. It is about a bigger feeling.

I feel so sad for all these children who don’t get to spend their summer/school holidays/weekends with their school friends, neighbour friends, extra curricular friends because one of their parents moved far away.

I grew up with both my parents. However, we would spend a lot of our summers at grandparents or at the summer cabin with extended family instead of being home. I never saw this as an issue.

Thats thé sort of situation where you wouldn't want to bring a child into the mix tbh. Not when you are unhappy in said country in the first place and have a child with one of the natives.
Sometimes the child is a surprise. Sometimes the move to the country is a surprise. Sometimes the homesickness is a surprise. For example, it might only really hit home when you have children that you are now "stuck" in the country forever. Or you might think that when you have children / over time / as you learn the language, you will automatically become part of the new society and make friends at the school gates etc. - then that turns out to be harder than expected.

How come you call the country you were born in "home"? Isn't your home where you actually live and where your family (husband, children) live?
It's called homesick when people don't feel at home in the new country.
I've lived abroad for almost three decades and gone through all the stages of mourning the life I would have lived in my old country. I don't call the UK "home" any more. But it took a long time.

Some people never feel at home, even after decades, and that's sad. I know one mother who went back to the UK when her daughters were about 12, leaving them behind. She did it as carefully and kindly as she could, and her daughters understand why she did it. They see that she has had a happier life in the UK than she would have had here, and they know she left them here so as not to uproot them. But it is still hard work for the kids. A difficult choice to make.

@juliastone
How come you call the country you were born in "home"? Isn't your home where you actually live and where your family (husband, children) live?

Erm, because likely that’s the original country where you grew up, your family and friends of your formative years are there, it’s where you created long lasting memories like university, first loves, etc. Your whole life experience and family doesn’t just get erased when you get married and/or have children. 🤨

It’s possible to have two homes or even three, depending on how your life was formed.

Yes, you are being unreasonably judgemental.

You know nothing about his future plans for seeing his child, or his true motives for wanting to move or travel. Absolutely none of your business, is it?