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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU or is my mum? *TW*

116 replies

ShinyGreenElephant · 02/01/2021 08:52

Just had a fall out with my lovely mum, we never argue and shes really upset with me but I'm 100% sure I'm right so hoping for some other opinions to help me see where shes coming from.

Our great uncle is a child abuser. I won't go into any detail but he was never convicted but my auntie says he is, so he is. Noone has ever mentioned this to him directly as my auntie doesn't want that, so its one of those family things noone really talks about. The younger generation would happily cut him off completely but the older ones (his sisters and brothers) still speak to him, and my mums generation think he is vile but are very "keep the peace". There was a big issue years ago when I wouldnt have him at my wedding - my mum and nan asked me to just invite him to keep the peace, and eventually blamed numbers when I refused. Him and his side of the family were both very put out and did a lot of moaning and fb posts about disloyal family. I didnt care but my mum did.

So last night my mum was talking about her landmark birthday end of next year, saying she hoped it would be a chance for a big reunion and the whole family to get together. I said yes, not uncle P though. She said oh well we will have to invite him, sure he won't come. I said you do realise that if he does, I'm not bringing the kids and neither will X,Y or Z (cousins). She said oh don't be ridiculous, hes nearly 90 and in a wheelchair, what do you think hes going to do? I said thats beside the point, I won't have my kids in the same room as a child abuser and I know the others will feel the same. Why would you want that?

Shes now saying she won't have a party at all rather than deal with the fall out of not inviting him. It won't just be him moaning it will be my nan and her other brothers and sister, plus his other daughter and her kids. We cant give the real reason as my auntie doesn't want that. I think we should just say hes not invited because hes a racist (he is) but my mum has spat her dummy out and said she just won't bother and that I'm being too black and white as usual.

Am I? I won't be changing my mind but if people think I am being OTT about it I would like to hear opinions so I can understand my mums side a bit more.

OP posts:
Slothmomma · 02/01/2021 09:07

I don't think you're unreasonable at all but I also wouldn't think as far ahead as this being a problem at the end of the year - being blunt, he's nearly 90 and in covid times there's a chance he won't be around to invite 🤷‍♀️

BrightonForWine · 02/01/2021 09:10

I would go and not let my kids anywhere near him.

ittakes2 · 02/01/2021 09:11

Honestly, this is a tricky one. I was sexually abused as a child so have had to think if my opinion is fair. I pressume it was your aunt who was abused. She has done the right thing telling people so they know to keep their children away. Its a shame his family did not deal with this along time ago. I think I would ask your aunt how she feels about it and that might guide my decision. There is a part of me inclined to think I would not let the actions of one sick man affect my mother's special day because by not letting my children be involved ultimately they lose out for something he has done. But for me the bigger bit is how his/your family have chosen to bury this under the carpet which would have affected your aunt greatly. I would find it hard to feel the same way about a family which has done that I am sorry.

Fairyliz · 02/01/2021 09:15

When you say end of next year do you mean end of 2021 or 2022?
As previous poster has said there’s a fair chance he won’t be alive and I’d he is he may be too ill to attend.
If he does go just keep your children well away. Presumably if they are fairly young you should be keeping a close eye on them anyway and if they are older explain to them they shouldn’t go near him.

Original poster
ShinyGreenElephant · 02/01/2021 09:19

@ittakes2 totally agree, but the issue is that my auntie doesn't want to tell anyone else outside of the family (it was her daughter who told me, its not openly discussed), doesnt want it mentioned to him by anyone and doesnt want it talked about so our hands are tied in a way in terms of actively excommunicating him from the family. His other daughter is absolutely adamant it never happened so no help there. We all hate him and I have only seen him once since this came out 10 years ago - he turned up to a family party and me and my cousin immediately took our kids and left. Noone is 'letting him off' were just a bit stuck, and he lives far away so it rarely comes up.

Also agree it's too early to worry about it and I wish now it had never come up, but I also think that it would be much worse if my mum plans and pays for a lovely party then at least a third of the family including all of her grandchildren dont turn up. I even suggested making it an adults only party but she wants the kids there. You can't have both!

OP posts:
Calmandmeasured1 · 02/01/2021 09:32

I don't think either of you ABU. I would think that nobody would want him in the same room but relationships are complicated.

Your DM is obviously torn and doesn't want to hurt your nan's feelings. Presumably your nan and her other siblings either don't believed he has abused your aunt, or can't reconcile this with other more decent aspects of his character.

These behaviours are often kept secret and abusers not charged but are open secrets in the family. Something similar is in my extended family background. It has seriously impacted on the lives of the abused but still wasn't reported and one relative still believes his father was not an abuser. After some years, the abuser was allowed back into the lives of the (now adult) abused children. I wasn't happy about this but I accepted that it wasn't my call to make. I was civil but not friendly and kept any contact with him to an absolute minimum. (Literally hello and goodbye with no other conversation).

I would probably go to your DM's landmark birthday and just say hello to him and then move away from his wheelchair for the rest of the evening.

It is worth bearing in mind that he may have been brought up in a household where sexual abuse was the norm. He may even have been abused himself as my relative was.

moomin11 · 02/01/2021 09:42

How does your auntie, the victim, feel about it all? The focus seems to be on everyone else's feelings except hers.

MachineBee · 02/01/2021 09:43

YANBU about this and I understand your position. However it is your DMs landmark celebration and she should have the final say over her guest list. As we age personal autonomy often gets eroded and she may be feeling this to some extent.

As PPs have pointed out, he may not make it to the party. And sadly other relatives who are the blockers to this coming out properly so in the end it may become a non-issue.

I wouldn’t fall out with your DM about this, but if your other cousins could also let it be known they aren’t happy to attend if your Uncle P is going to be there, it may change your DMs mind and take the heat off you.

Haggertyjane · 02/01/2021 09:46

Surely as it's her birthday she can invite who she pleases? You had the choice at your wedding so you can't deny her the same. The great uncle isn't a convicted paedophile so it's still all rumour. He's not going to be in any position to harm any children there so however distasteful you find him, your children are not in danger. Or just don't take them or don't go yourself?

By having the family altogether and inviting him your mother and the family clearly don't believe the aunt because they would ostracise him regardless. Surely you have told your mum what the aunt says? What is he like as a person? Are the accusations believable. So many variables here. I don't believe someone making accusations should be believed 100% because children can misunderstand things. However it depends on the people involved. Ultimately you should do what you are comfortable with and your DM the same.

MamaNewtNewt · 02/01/2021 09:46

I do t think you are being unreasonable at all. There's no way I would voluntarily have my child in the same room as a child abuser, wheelchair or not.

birdling · 02/01/2021 09:48

Your mum has every right to invite whoever she wants.
Whilst I understand your feelings, you are being very dictatorial.

TidyDancer · 02/01/2021 09:51

I wouldn't go, and in this circumstance my DM wouldn't expect me to. But then she wouldn't invite a child abuser in the first place (and certainly not just to keep the family happy).

That said, I can see both sides of this, it's just that your DM is very firmly in the wrong and she probably does actually know this.

Original poster
ShinyGreenElephant · 02/01/2021 09:52

@moomin11 I cant discuss it with her as shes not told me directly, she finds it very hard to talk about. She has a lot of mental health issues and this only came out after years of counselling. Its her daughter who told me and my other cousins- she thinks he's disgusting and despises him and won't go anywhere near him, neither will her mum.

OP posts:
Babdoc · 02/01/2021 09:55

I think in your position I would contact the aunt and ask her what HER wishes are with regard to the proposed party. And go along with whatever she wants.

Starlightstarbright1 · 02/01/2021 09:57

I would leave the ball in her court.

As said she can invite who she wants but it is also your right to refuse.

Babdoc · 02/01/2021 09:58

Sorry, cross posted. OK, you can’t talk to aunt, but perhaps ask her daughter whether any of them will be going, and match with their wishes?

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 02/01/2021 10:00

If he’s 90 and in a wheelchair, while I’d find it distasteful, I’d leave the decision to the birthday girl. It will be her day, so in the circs it does seem U to lay down the law - esp. if it’s going to cause rows and bad feeling.

JillofTrades · 02/01/2021 10:01

You know what, stick to it op. Stand by your sense of what is right. He is a child abuser. He should never be allowed to enjoy his life in oblivion just for the sake of keeping the peace. It's sad that your mother would support that but that's her choice. So what if he is 90 and in a wheelchair, he got to the lovely age of 90 without ever paying for what he did. All because of people like your family members who support these actions. I would not go either. Your mother would rather have an abuser in the same space as her own grandchildren. That's such a shame.

lottiegarbanzo · 02/01/2021 10:13

The mother is free to invite whomever she wishes to her party but she cannot compel anyone to attend. Surely she's the one trying to be dictatorial, by seeking to compel or manipulate OP to attend and to bring her children?

It's a really tricky one because of the secrecy, so that the close relatives on his side of the family wouldn't understand why he / they were not being invited.

Could they not be told something very general, that there is discomfort about him, without the aunt's confidence being betrayed? Probably not, without their curiosity blowing it all up horribly.

Your best hope might be to wait and see, given his age.

MadameMonk · 02/01/2021 10:18

I think it’s time to speak (with kindness) to your aunt. It’s not just this party- it’s starting to have big impacts. She may actually surprise you. All these whispered assumptions about potential victimisation are a worry.

Nothing you’ve said yet changes my view on this. In the birthday party scenario you’ve outlined, I don’t think I care about anyone else’s opinion. It’s all based on rumor and hearsay, for you guys. At 90 in a wheelchair I don’t care about him being in a bigger crowd (for what, max 2hrs? In the corner?). I also don’t think he’s technically going to ruin your night, OP.
You’ve got duties.

No kids are likely at risk, your mum has a right to have fun. These things need to count too. Not outweigh anything else, but count.

Time for a bit of sunshine and air on this convoluted intergenerational ‘thing’. Have it out, or let it go.

thosetalesofunexpected · 02/01/2021 10:22

@Haggertyjane

I think if a child says he or she been touched up/kissed in way,etc that is at a very intimate areas of their bodies.

They should be believed ???

How can Children misunderstand a perv getting a sexual thrills/kicks then?
No wonder child victims of sexual abuse,often wary of speaking up,worried whether they will be believed/Judged by our society?

pinkyredrose · 02/01/2021 10:27

How do you know for sure he's a child abuser? What kind of abuse, shouting, hitting, sexual?

RainingBatsAndFrogs · 02/01/2021 10:32

Does your Mum believe her sister?

How does the abused aunt feel about him being at all these family occasions?

As

YoniAndGuy · 02/01/2021 10:46

Shes now saying she won't have a party at all rather than deal with the fall out of not inviting him.

'Sounds like the best plan, Mum.'

And leave it at that.

There really is no other way of sorting it out.

GlummyMcGlummerson · 02/01/2021 10:50

@birdling

Your mum has every right to invite whoever she wants. Whilst I understand your feelings, you are being very dictatorial.
She's inviting a pedophile. You can't invite a peadophile to a place with children and expect parents not to be upset by it.

OP I have similar in my family and I'm constantly upsetting my mum over it but I don't give a crap my kids come first and unlike her I refuse to brush it under the carpet