AIBU or is my mum? *TW*

[ShinyGreenElephant]

Just had a fall out with my lovely mum, we never argue and shes really upset with me but I'm 100% sure I'm right so hoping for some other opinions to help me see where shes coming from.

Our great uncle is a child abuser. I won't go into any detail but he was never convicted but my auntie says he is, so he is. Noone has ever mentioned this to him directly as my auntie doesn't want that, so its one of those family things noone really talks about. The younger generation would happily cut him off completely but the older ones (his sisters and brothers) still speak to him, and my mums generation think he is vile but are very "keep the peace". There was a big issue years ago when I wouldnt have him at my wedding - my mum and nan asked me to just invite him to keep the peace, and eventually blamed numbers when I refused. Him and his side of the family were both very put out and did a lot of moaning and fb posts about disloyal family. I didnt care but my mum did.

So last night my mum was talking about her landmark birthday end of next year, saying she hoped it would be a chance for a big reunion and the whole family to get together. I said yes, not uncle P though. She said oh well we will have to invite him, sure he won't come. I said you do realise that if he does, I'm not bringing the kids and neither will X,Y or Z (cousins). She said oh don't be ridiculous, hes nearly 90 and in a wheelchair, what do you think hes going to do? I said thats beside the point, I won't have my kids in the same room as a child abuser and I know the others will feel the same. Why would you want that?

Shes now saying she won't have a party at all rather than deal with the fall out of not inviting him. It won't just be him moaning it will be my nan and her other brothers and sister, plus his other daughter and her kids. We cant give the real reason as my auntie doesn't want that. I think we should just say hes not invited because hes a racist (he is) but my mum has spat her dummy out and said she just won't bother and that I'm being too black and white as usual.

Am I? I won't be changing my mind but if people think I am being OTT about it I would like to hear opinions so I can understand my mums side a bit more.

I'm sorry, but it's your mum's party and you're dictating who she can invite?? WTAF?! If you don't like this person, even if someone else told you a thing about them that is socially unacceptable, it's not your decision who someone else invites to their special birthday, and now you've upset your mum so much that she doesn't want the party. How sad. You sound really controlling.

I think you are doing the right thing by standing firm. You may not be able to speak to your auntie directly about it as she is still deeply traumatised by him but you are still standing up for her by not letting this be swept under the rug.

If your mum wants to punish herself by cancelling the whole thing, let her crack on - at the moment she’s trying to guilt you into backing down. It’s her choice if she wants to put a child abuser ahead of the rest of her family.

Your great uncle P may be a child abuser. There is only one aunts accusation that he was abusive and he’s not even aware of the accusation. The aunts own sister has come out and said that she’s basically lying and abuse never happened. So you have two people who were there with conflicting testimony about uncle P.

He is also 90 and in a wheelchair, so even if he were a child abuser, he is no threat to any child present.

Your DM can invite whoever she wants to, and given that there is doubt as to whether uncle P is a child abuser, I do not see anything wrong with him being invited. I also think you are over reacting by saying you won’t attend if he’s there. He’s no danger to any child in his present state.

I think it is a bit odd that the aunt doesn’t want anyone outside the family to be told and for uncle P to also be never told. It is also odd that she seems to be the only victim of uncle P. Most abusers don’t stop at one victim. They usually target new victims as soon as first one matures too much and is no longer a pre-pubescent child. So there would be others in the family that could corroborate your aunt. But there are not and that to me adds to the doubt as to whether he is actually a child abuser.

What PlanDeRaccordement said for sure..

I voted YABU as you are going by hearsay that may or may not be true.

@thosetalesofunexpected Sorry but neither you or I have any idea of whether these allegations are true or otherwise, and if you think everyone who makes allegations is telling the truth, you are naive. I don't know the truth, neither do you, neither does the OP.

No one knows the truth except the people involved.

All the OP can do is go with what she feels comfortable with. If she isn't comfortable then she shouldn't go.

OP, I agree your mum is free to invite whoever she wishes, just as you have every right not to attend.

How many people would refuse to go if he goes? Including how many children? Maybe just remind her of this fact and that it would not be the party she is wanting to have without them their.

Can't believe how many people are doubting the aunt because she hasn't boldly denounced him to the whole family and the police Clearly never encountered this sort of situation in their own extended families and lack the imagination to see why a victim might not want to tear their whole family apart but still want to protect the young kids in the family including her own.

OP all you can control is what you do. Tell your mum it's her birthday and she can invite who she likes, but you won't socialise alongside an incestuous paedophile, aged or not. It's not like there's some sort of moral statute of limitations on this behaviour where suddenly it's long enough ago that it's acceptable. She can then decide who she'd rather have, or prefer not to have the do at all. It's her choice. You make yours and let her make hers.

Your mum has to choose here and I think it's absolutely right that you and other relatives let her know that you won't be there if he is.

She needs to realise that this is too serious and damaging to keep the peace and pacify people.

Utterly by the apologists in denial on this thread

Myths about child abuse being perpetuated too.

I was a victim of csa, my siblings weren't abused and weren't witness to the abuse because that's NOT always how it works.

Contrary to the myths they don't always abuse any child available to them, they don't always abuse more than one child in a family and they aren't necessarily rendered harmless by physical incapacity.

Nor do people frequently and easily lie or "misunderstand" such behaviour

That's all the crap we victims have been subjected to by apologists and deniers for eons! And it needs to stop!

Op you are absolutely right to take the stance you are. In that type of environment you cannot guarantee any child's safety. Abuse can and does occur in public (have none of you deniers heard the details on saviles ON CAMERA abuse?) in the presence of others (I personally experienced several incidents in a small room where my mother and/or siblings were present abusers are clever sneaky bastards!) and do it in such a way as to make it appear "accidental" (tickling "games" etc) or "open to interpretation"

Doesn't make it any less harmful or traumatising and makes the victims more vulnerable to other paedos too.

Catch on to yourselves and perhaps do at least a little more research and reading of victims experiences to understand it isn't just an abuser sneaking into a child's bedroom unseen to "full on" abuse there are many "levels" of abuse up to and inc that and all the levels are traumatising and destroy lives.

Sickening to read some of these posts

Op you stick to your guns and protect your kids

Utterly DISGUSTED that first sentence should say

This is not in anyway to excuse the behaviour, but if it was sibling abuse, how old was the perpetrator at the time of the abuse?
If it happened when he was a child/teenager, do you have any knowledge /reason to believe that he abused as an adult?

Some studies indicate that the risk of young abusers sexually re-offending as adults appears to be low.

A hard situation to be in; it is your Mothers' party, so her choice as to whom she invites. It is also your choice whether or not to attend, with or without your children.

You are right.

There is not a chance in hell a pedophile should EVER be allowed to be treated like other people. They are the scum of the earth and it doesn't matter how old he is or what he's capable of now, he should never be allowed to join in any get togethers.

Anyone who protects or stands up for a pedophile is just as bad as them. There is absolutely no reason dirty fuckers like this should ever be forgiven.

I wouldn't care who didn't speak to me, what ever I was organising or invited to, I would not be in the same room as them. These sick bastards should be condemned to hell and rot!

You are fully justified in your standing. I just feel for the older generation who, although fully grown adults, may well be stuck in the old family dynamic of intimidation, shame and fear from your great-uncle. Some habits and emotions hang around for a lifetime.
You have absolutely every right to stand your ground re this party, but I would be inclined to have a little more compassion for how other family members feel

We have a very similar issue in our family but it's my DM brother who is the abuser and her and her siblings were abused.

She told me once and regrets it because I won't forget and pretend he's not an evil fucker who doesn't deserve the care his siblings now give him due to his cancer.

I'm shocked her generation appear to accept the abuse, and just forget it happened.

Her choice whether she has a party or not. Your choice (and that of the other invitees) whether you go or not. Sad situation really, and the option of avoiding the issue by not having a party at all may well be the path of least resistance here.

Why is this vile human not been to prison. Of course YANBU.

@WhatTiggersDoBest

I'm sorry, but it's your mum's party and you're dictating who she can invite?? WTAF?! If you don't like this person, even if someone else told you a thing about them that is socially unacceptable, it's not your decision who someone else invites to their special birthday, and now you've upset your mum so much that she doesn't want the party. How sad. You sound really controlling.

We are talking about inviting a paedophile to a party full of the families children!! What on earth is wrong with you?!

@Graphista

Utterly by the apologists in denial on this thread

Myths about child abuse being perpetuated too.

I was a victim of csa, my siblings weren't abused and weren't witness to the abuse because that's NOT always how it works.

Contrary to the myths they don't always abuse any child available to them, they don't always abuse more than one child in a family and they aren't necessarily rendered harmless by physical incapacity.

Nor do people frequently and easily lie or "misunderstand" such behaviour

That's all the crap we victims have been subjected to by apologists and deniers for eons! And it needs to stop!

Op you are absolutely right to take the stance you are. In that type of environment you cannot guarantee any child's safety. Abuse can and does occur in public (have none of you deniers heard the details on saviles ON CAMERA abuse?) in the presence of others (I personally experienced several incidents in a small room where my mother and/or siblings were present abusers are clever sneaky bastards!) and do it in such a way as to make it appear "accidental" (tickling "games" etc) or "open to interpretation"

Doesn't make it any less harmful or traumatising and makes the victims more vulnerable to other paedos too.

Catch on to yourselves and perhaps do at least a little more research and reading of victims experiences to understand it isn't just an abuser sneaking into a child's bedroom unseen to "full on" abuse there are many "levels" of abuse up to and inc that and all the levels are traumatising and destroy lives.

Sickening to read some of these posts

Op you stick to your guns and protect your kids

Very well written post.

both as someone who has experienced Csa and now works the that “field” I couldn’t agree more and am so pleased to see such a well put post.

While not necessarily anything to do with this thread but to the situation the thread is about I want to add that this paragraph is particularly important.

Op you are absolutely right to take the stance you are. In that type of environment you cannot guarantee any child's safety. Abuse can and does occur in public (have none of you deniers heard the details on saviles ON CAMERA abuse?) in the presence of others (I personally experienced several incidents in a small room where my mother and/or siblings were present abusers are clever sneaky bastards!) and do it in such a way as to make it appear "accidental" (tickling "games" etc) or "open to interpretation"

You could literally be in the same room as your child (potentially even have your eyes on your child depending on the nature of the abuse) and not realise they are at that moment being abused by the adult both graphista and I am proof of that.

@ShinyGreenElephant let her have her party if she wants and yes others are correct (even if I personally don’t understand why it’s a choice she would make) she can invite who ever she likes but you have every right to not go and while you respect her choice she has to respect yours.

Personally I think you are absolutely not being unreasonable, if we allow the attitude of 'oh he/she is old now so it doesn't matter' we are allowing the abuse to continue. Ask your mother if it had been you he had abused would she feel the same??!

Let's be real, there is a strong possibility he has abused others (maybe even other family members who have been too ashamed to come forward) sexual abuse is abhorrent, we should be setting an example to everyone that it is NEVER acceptable, it is NEVER forgotten and it is NEVER ok to justify an abusers presence anywhere near children because they are 'old' and it doesn't matter anymore. These attitudes are the same reason victims don't come forward as they are led to believe they will blamed for making a fuss. Stand your ground OP, you can protect and teach your children by setting the example your other family members seem afraid to do the same

YANBU OP and there are responses on this thread who clearly don't understand why an abused person would not want to go public.

"Keeping the peace" and dysfunctional family dynamics are what keeps these bastards living fairly normal lives. Shame on those for enabling this.

@WhatTiggersDoBest

I'm sorry, but it's your mum's party and you're dictating who she can invite?? WTAF?! If you don't like this person, even if someone else told you a thing about them that is socially unacceptable, it's not your decision who someone else invites to their special birthday, and now you've upset your mum so much that she doesn't want the party. How sad. You sound really controlling.

She’s NOT telling her mum she can’t invite the child abuser, she is just saying she’ll leave her kids at home if she does. It’a not a case of: I don’t like uncle pedo because he’s a bit loud when he’s drunk, she wants to keep her children away from a child abuser.

I really don’t get why people like the OP’s mum think he can’t do any harm at the age of 90. Even from a wheelchair he can say something inappropriate or touch a child somewhere it shouldn’t be touched. It’a a no brainer, really.

You've said your piece, just say you don't want to fall out with her and she can invite who she wants and that you cant speak for others but you and your kids won't be going, she knows why and it's up to her to gice whatever reason she likes.

Basically yes he's disgusting but you aren't her conscious and can't make her do anything so unless you want to fall out with her for her stance on his past then just do you.

You are totally right in your principles and to prioritise your children. It sounds difficult to get this across to your children. Personally I would l wait to see if he is going and if so I'd make an excuse not to go (self isolating pending covid results if that is still a thing then, or similar)

I'd refuse to discuss it again. Its your mums birthday, her party and she can invite who she wants. However its an invite, you aren't obliged to go and you also aren't obliged to lie to wider family about why you aren't going.

Basically your mum has a choice, you've been clear you won't pretend to be ok with great uncle being there. You've also pointed out the rest of the younger generation will just politely decline if hes invited - many will just lie and say they are busy. So she's been forewarned that if she invites him, she won't end up with the big family get together she wants.

If its not until around Christmas 2021, leave her to think about it. and hope covid gets him

My DH's family have a similar situation. One of his sisters reported his brother and Dad. His Dad was found innocent, brother was convicted of something, but no one has ever told me what.

His sister left years before we even met each other and no one knows where she is. Half the family believe her, the other don't. All family get together are fractured, despite it happening 30+ years ago. They have never worked through anything. I follow my husbands lead with who he will see. We do have contact occasionally with both his Dad and brother BUT I have never left my children unattended around them.

I don't know what happened and have heard so many differing views of what they think happened. DH's sister isn't here and I don't think I will ever meet her, nor will I ever know the truth. So my decision was to ensure my children were safe around all of the family, regardless of any individuals belief.