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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU or is my mum? *TW*

116 replies

ShinyGreenElephant · 02/01/2021 08:52

Just had a fall out with my lovely mum, we never argue and shes really upset with me but I'm 100% sure I'm right so hoping for some other opinions to help me see where shes coming from.

Our great uncle is a child abuser. I won't go into any detail but he was never convicted but my auntie says he is, so he is. Noone has ever mentioned this to him directly as my auntie doesn't want that, so its one of those family things noone really talks about. The younger generation would happily cut him off completely but the older ones (his sisters and brothers) still speak to him, and my mums generation think he is vile but are very "keep the peace". There was a big issue years ago when I wouldnt have him at my wedding - my mum and nan asked me to just invite him to keep the peace, and eventually blamed numbers when I refused. Him and his side of the family were both very put out and did a lot of moaning and fb posts about disloyal family. I didnt care but my mum did.

So last night my mum was talking about her landmark birthday end of next year, saying she hoped it would be a chance for a big reunion and the whole family to get together. I said yes, not uncle P though. She said oh well we will have to invite him, sure he won't come. I said you do realise that if he does, I'm not bringing the kids and neither will X,Y or Z (cousins). She said oh don't be ridiculous, hes nearly 90 and in a wheelchair, what do you think hes going to do? I said thats beside the point, I won't have my kids in the same room as a child abuser and I know the others will feel the same. Why would you want that?

Shes now saying she won't have a party at all rather than deal with the fall out of not inviting him. It won't just be him moaning it will be my nan and her other brothers and sister, plus his other daughter and her kids. We cant give the real reason as my auntie doesn't want that. I think we should just say hes not invited because hes a racist (he is) but my mum has spat her dummy out and said she just won't bother and that I'm being too black and white as usual.

Am I? I won't be changing my mind but if people think I am being OTT about it I would like to hear opinions so I can understand my mums side a bit more.

OP posts:
MachineBee · 02/01/2021 17:49

Something else your DM may not have considered, is that if she does invite him and he attends, he'll be in a lot of the photos of her big celebration. At some point in the future it will be common knowledge across the wider family, and all those pictures will be tainted for her.

M0rT · 02/01/2021 17:53

I have worked with the adult survivors of csa, and I think you are completely in the right.
I don't understand how easily people get over their disgust and horror about the peados in the paper when it's someone they know.
I could not be civil to someone I knew something like that about, nevermind in a party mood in their company!
I am childless so this isn't an overwrought mother's perspective.
I think with your DM you will just have to say you don't want to fight over it, but you won't be bringing your DC to any party this man is at and you know neither will your cousins.

Godimabitch · 02/01/2021 18:22

You can either have children at your party or a child abuser. Not both. I wouldn't even want him looking at my children or talking to them. I wouldn't want them within touching distance of him. I'd feel sick if the kids were playing doing cartwheels and stuff and their skirts or tops came up a bit. Just the idea that he's sat there looking at the children with those thoughts in his mind.

Alexandernevermind · 02/01/2021 18:39

@Quarantino you misunderstood me and I feel took me out of context. I said it was hearsay because its second hand information and no accusation has been made or is spoken of. Its a she said she said situation. I did say that I did not want to undermine the severity of the claim, and that I had a friend who went through exactly the same ordeal with life changing consequences.

maddy68 · 02/01/2021 18:47

I actually agree with your mum.

It's her party. She can invite who she wants. You have no proof that he did anything it's juts hearsay. He's 90 and wheelchair bound. What do you think the risk is?

You have more chance of your kids coming into contact with a pedo (lovely guy next door)

You will be there I assume supervising you're children's safety from anyone , I suspect he's teh lowest risk tbh

Love51 · 02/01/2021 18:48

Yanbu. Obviously Yanbu to not want this man around your children. Also Yanbu to feel let down by your mum that she would countenance this.

katy1213 · 02/01/2021 18:52

With luck and Covid, he'll have kicked the bucket and not be an issue.

DuzzyFuck · 02/01/2021 18:54

Honestly OP if I were in your position I wouldn't go, or at least wouldn't take the kids. Your Mum has the right to invite him but you have the right to refuse to be around him.

I do very much believe though that to ignore the wrongs of others is to condone or trivialise those wrongs. 'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing' and all that.

Aquamarine1029 · 02/01/2021 19:01

Your mother doesn't care how your aunt will feel with her abuser there? Not at all?

MartiniDry · 02/01/2021 19:06

Your mum's the host and can invite whoever she likes. It's not for you to challenge her choices.

Also, as a mother you can decline invitations extended to you and your children whenever you like. It's not for your mum to guilt trip you into attending

Your great uncle can go wherever he likes. It's not for you to stop him.

And if you want an end to the cover-up you can speak out in whatever way you like. If people ask you why you, Johnnie, and Susy aren't going to your mum's party, tell them.

Graphista · 02/01/2021 19:13

@Ginkypig @VillanellesOrangeCoat @Thedogscollar

I'm so sorry that you and quite possibly others on the thread who don't wish to say so have been through similar it is far too prevalent.

VillanellesOrangeCoat i also agree that the victims wish not to be pushed to discuss is correct. I didn't disclose until almost 20 years later and only then because I was worried about his contact with another child. The reactions I got to disclosing discouraged me from disclosing again to anyone else for several more years. Victims are not believed, they're not treated kindly, they're not supported and they are vilified and demonised!

This idealised idea that family automatically believe when disclosed to is sadly far from true. My mother and sister still don't believe me, brother says he does but then does and says things that make me doubt, dads side absolutely don't mums side believed immediately without question and weren't at all surprised! But even they have expected me to keep quiet for mums sake.

I also spoke to police years ago about a possible investigation but was told it's literally my word against his and would likely simply cause me more distress with no result in terms of even a prosecution let alone conviction!

Statistically this would appear to be true, it's incredibly hard to get justice and victims are torn apart. My mh is already incredibly fragile.

The only fair way for this to be dealt with is through the justice system

Seriously please go and have a look at just how that DOESN'T work

@maddy68 Would you introduce your kids to him? Let them talk with and play with or in front of him? Allow them to sit on his lap or be placed within touching/hugging distance for photos?

The justice system doesn't work and people don't ostracise these people nearly as much as they should.

I've sadly many examples in friends I know of with similar history who's parents etc were told and eg still used the abusers as babysitters and childcare, mixed with them socially etc this even includes abusers who were tried, convicted and served custodial sentences it's shocking!

People don't react as many without these experiences in their close circle would expect.

Graphista · 02/01/2021 19:15

The only fair way for this to be dealt with is through the justice system

Is a quote from another poster but bold fail

C0NNIE · 02/01/2021 19:50

@moomin11

How does your auntie, the victim, feel about it all? The focus seems to be on everyone else's feelings except hers.
Exactly.

Although I’d like to point out that there’s more than likely to be dozens of other victims 🙁

PoodleMoth · 02/01/2021 20:10

YANBU I am amazed the posts on this thread sympathising with your mum and the 15% who have voted the other way!

independentfriend · 02/01/2021 20:26

Maybe the way round this is for a party of two halves - an adults bit at lunch time / early afternoon followed by a child friendly bit late afternoon / early dinner time. [or the other way round, but can't imagine someone of 90 is any more up for a late night than the children]. Your mum can invite who she likes to her party and you and others with children don't end up anywhere near the risky person.

bathorshower · 02/01/2021 20:31

OP, I'm afraid I'm going to make your life more complicated. We have a vaguely similar situation in my family, though with a conviction; a male family member was convicted of purchasing videos of children being raped, sometimes called child porn. His wife minimises what happened, he was just looking at pictures, he didn't know what he'd bought. You get the idea.

DD has never met the male relative, and frailty means she never will. She has met his wife; we have decided that she would never be left alone with her, as given the wife is minimising what happened, to the extent of saying she'd happily leave a child with her husband. Do you leave your children alone with your mum? Who (else) might she expose them to in the interests of being polite and keeping the peace? It's a horrible question, but one that has to be asked.

BlueThistles · 02/01/2021 20:37

I love that everyone in your family is PROTECTING this peadophile... and some things just never fucking change.. no wonder these bastards get away with this crime.. 🙄

OP you are doing the right thing..

screw your peadophile protecting Mother.. and the rest of them

Original poster
ShinyGreenElephant · 02/01/2021 20:42

Thanks for everyone's answers, really helpful. I won't be changing my mind but its helped me see my mums side as I've really struggled with this- to me its so black and white but I can see from all the different opinions here that not everyone sees it so simply.

To answer a few questions- I wont go into detail on what happened to my aunt as it would be awful if this was somehow identified. But I'd rather believe her and not see an old racist uncle who I didn't like anyway, than not believe a victim just because there's no evidence. We all believe her, just the older ones who have had a long, loving relationship with him before this came out have found it harder to cut him off. Different attitudes I suppose. I also wont be bringing it up to her or quizzing her - she's had a really hard life anyway, lots of MH issues and its the last bloody thing she needs, it's none of my business to stick my nose into. My part of it starts and ends with keeping my kids away from a filthy old peadophile.

My auntie won't come to the party either way, she never comes to any family occasions after making a huge drunken scene at a wedding many years ago (she has major issues which I'm sure are 99% his fault). All my close group of cousins including her daughter won't go, or at very least won't bring the kids, if uncle P is there. I dont want to bring them all into it now though and upset my mum further when no plans have even been made for this party, but I'm very confident none of them would bring their kids near him. He lives a long way away so he never really comes to family things anyway - the last one he turned up at was years and years ago. With my wedding it was the principle I think- everyone was invited except them and they felt it was an insult. This is why my mum thinks its easier to invite him, confident he wont come, than have it become a huge deal when everyone is invited except for him.

Anyway, I'll just leave the subject for now and hope hes dead before my mum turns 60. Thanks for helping me see some different opinions (even if some of them I REALLY don't agree with). And very sorry for those whove been victims themselves and thanks for sharing.

OP posts:
popsydoodle4444 · 02/01/2021 20:46

Uncle P might be nearly 90 and in a wheelchair but still able to be charged and stand trial should a victim come forward and press charges.

I wouldn't have my kids anywhere near him elderly or not;he might not be able to touch but can still imagine 🤮

Mumoftwo1990 · 02/01/2021 20:52

@ShinyGreenElephant

Just had a fall out with my lovely mum, we never argue and shes really upset with me but I'm 100% sure I'm right so hoping for some other opinions to help me see where shes coming from.

Our great uncle is a child abuser. I won't go into any detail but he was never convicted but my auntie says he is, so he is. Noone has ever mentioned this to him directly as my auntie doesn't want that, so its one of those family things noone really talks about. The younger generation would happily cut him off completely but the older ones (his sisters and brothers) still speak to him, and my mums generation think he is vile but are very "keep the peace". There was a big issue years ago when I wouldnt have him at my wedding - my mum and nan asked me to just invite him to keep the peace, and eventually blamed numbers when I refused. Him and his side of the family were both very put out and did a lot of moaning and fb posts about disloyal family. I didnt care but my mum did.

So last night my mum was talking about her landmark birthday end of next year, saying she hoped it would be a chance for a big reunion and the whole family to get together. I said yes, not uncle P though. She said oh well we will have to invite him, sure he won't come. I said you do realise that if he does, I'm not bringing the kids and neither will X,Y or Z (cousins). She said oh don't be ridiculous, hes nearly 90 and in a wheelchair, what do you think hes going to do? I said thats beside the point, I won't have my kids in the same room as a child abuser and I know the others will feel the same. Why would you want that?

Shes now saying she won't have a party at all rather than deal with the fall out of not inviting him. It won't just be him moaning it will be my nan and her other brothers and sister, plus his other daughter and her kids. We cant give the real reason as my auntie doesn't want that. I think we should just say hes not invited because hes a racist (he is) but my mum has spat her dummy out and said she just won't bother and that I'm being too black and white as usual.

Am I? I won't be changing my mind but if people think I am being OTT about it I would like to hear opinions so I can understand my mums side a bit more.

You can only be black and white when it comes to abuse, would your mum be so 'there's a grey area' if this has happened to you?

Your mums in the wrong here.

Original poster
ShinyGreenElephant · 02/01/2021 20:53

Also just to be clear, my mum doesn't want him there, she thinks he's disgusting and hates him. She doesn't invite him to any other parties she throws (always much smaller and just local family). She is just completely sure he won't go and wants to avoid the drama of my wedding being recreated for no reason. I just made it clear that shes taking a big risk because if he does turn up then she will lose about 15 guests who she actually does love and want there, including her daughter and grandkids, which would ruin her party completely. If shes happy to take that risk, thats her choice. Shes not happy with that but doesn't want to put her big girl pants on and make a stand like she should (imo).

OP posts:
Thefrenchconnection1 · 02/01/2021 20:55

E

Original poster
ShinyGreenElephant · 02/01/2021 20:56

@popsydoodle4444 totally agree, the concept of choosing to have my babies in the same room as a pedo is just beyond me. Just no

OP posts:
Thefrenchconnection1 · 02/01/2021 20:56

Easy solution here. Have a venue with steps and gravel outside. It will not be accessible to him

GrumpyHoonMain · 02/01/2021 20:56

One way to button this up is to plan and host a surprise party for your mum. That way any complaints come directly to you and your mum isn’t to blame.

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