AIBU to think that the majority of people on here are middle class and high earners?

[Kaylasmum49]

Just curious.

Hello, I'd say I'm middle class and have a decent income. Here I am on Mumsnet 🙋🏻‍♀️

I bloody hate cleaning ovens, glad I only have the one

I don’t mind reading about what others earn and have, be it fantasy on their part or real. I’m happy with my lot and love a nosy at others lives. What I don’t like is when others look down on people with less, it shows poor character

The posts that amuse me are the ones about nannies, like it's a perfectly normal thing to employ a live in nanny.

I don't think they are op.

@ShastaBeast YES!. in my area,its 1 million for a terrace. I am 28 years old and we bought a 2 bed flat last year. I am trying to overpay my mortgage so we can get a 3 bed flat soon, I don't have financial help from family. I don't think I am poor, I think I am quite average but I look so poor compared to all this posters in their 5 bedroom houses, 2 kids in private school or in college, 2 cars and huge pensions. In London, there are 30 year olds who can afford £1 million houses but there aren't even that many compared to the rest of the country.

I guess my answer is erring towards believing the wealthy posters are mostly real, because I see them and their hugely expensive, but modest, homes while out and about.

We are not as well off but have £75k in the bank and, post covid when I go back to work, will be earning £100k plus. No reason to lie as it’s fairly average and unimpressive compared to many around here. Our house is too small so kids share, deprivation according to some on MN...

Women are definitely paid less and attracted or pushed towards lower paid careers. And if they start working in higher paid careers, these jobs become less well paid as the number of women increases. Eg accountancy and IT. Women who do well often do it by acting more like men, rather than changing workplace culture to value female skills etc.

Me and DH are working class (he grew up inner city council house) we are top 1 or 2% earners depending how many hours I do (I contract).

I don't think anyone would know this about us as I'd say we are pretty normal - no cleaners or nannies here, but we both appreciate that we are in a very privileged position. We find "class" a complicated issue. We both have regional/non posh accents but we live in an affluent area and our son will grow up very differently to us.

I think MN does have a cross section but is more heavily weighted to higher earners.

@ShastaBeast Oh and those houses are in really nice areas too in the SE. they live 'rurally' but those prices are basically on par with london when you take the commuting costs into account.

[quote sst1234]@Lucidas

While you express a nice sentiment, the reality is that poverty and happiness are not compatible. Honestly, girls (and boys) need to be taught to aim higher, because warm, fuzzy happiness follows financial stability, it doesn’t precede it.[/quote]
Sure. 'Aim higher', how?

In my culture, it's incredibly common for young people to study medicine at university because they're essentially forced into it by their parents. Status and money are the motivating factors. They're financially stable but miserable by their work and utterly lacking in any agency.

For me, 'aim higher' means not being a sheep, and staying independent in your decision-making. Yes, that might not being a SAHM as a default role, in the absence of nothing else to do. It might also mean not working at PwC because that's what all your other mates went on to do, that's what the career fairs pushed onto you, and you haven't bothered to think more creatively about your options.

My own advice to my daughter would be to pursue your own interests - not half-heartedly, but with full commitment. Do something you enjoy, work in an area or field that's genuinely meaningful to you. Push yourself to be better at whatever you do, and continually revisit your personal and professional objectives.

I don't know why you're creating an either-or between 'poverty' and 'being driven by money'. I highly many teachers fall into the latter camp, for instance. Are they then impoverished? Would you advise your child against being a teacher?

I have the reverse perception: most posters seem to me to be working or lower-middle class. For me, it's not about actual income (one can be quite materially poor and upper-middle), but attitudes and posters' ways of expressing themselves, the things people worry about, values and so on.

Not me WC, sahm DP is a chef

@Gwenhwyfar @Waxonwaxoff0 yes, I do agree posters should be more considerate to others circumstances and not make assumptions. Equally it is helpful when OPs include budget or 'don't recommend a cleaner because I can't afford one.' When it's quite an open-ended question people from different walks of life will recommend different things.

I broke the news to DH yesterday that mumsnet is not just mums chatting about parenting! That there is talk about Brexit, covid, current affairs, carpet (that would be me!), and that there are grandparents on here, people without kids, even men (shock horror!) His conclusion was that it sounded middle class!!!

I just did a search and found:

Median household disposable income in the UK was £29,600 in financial year ending (FYE) 2019, based on estimates from the Office for National Statistics's (ONS's) Living Costs and Food Survey.

The mean average is £35,900.

Fwiw our households income is more than average, I'm part time, we've both got degrees and I've got a masters too. This sounds quite middle class. But we live in a mid terrace ex council house so that's going the other way. We've had a lot of debt that we've worked hard to repay. We don't holiday. Our car is 13yrs old. I suppose I don't think it's possible to draw a ring around someone that way. At least, not in such a basic hierarchy.

@Lucidas

I am purely taking a realist approach. Doing what makes you happy is great, but only if you have a parents that can bankroll you or until it doesn’t do much more than pay the bills. The over emphasis on ‘do what you enjoy’ is what created a generation of young graduates with degrees in media studies.
I am not saying that young people should be forced into certain careers but they need a dose of reality based advice so they don’t step into the big bad world expecting ribbons and candy floss.

[quote sst1234]@Lucidas

I am purely taking a realist approach. Doing what makes you happy is great, but only if you have a parents that can bankroll you or until it doesn’t do much more than pay the bills. The over emphasis on ‘do what you enjoy’ is what created a generation of young graduates with degrees in media studies.
I am not saying that young people should be forced into certain careers but they need a dose of reality based advice so they don’t step into the big bad world expecting ribbons and candy floss.[/quote]
By 'do what you enjoy', I don't mean sign up to a university course for three years, do the bare minimum and expect that your degree certificate will lead you to a media career. If you're not relentlessly pursuing internships and other opportunities, networking and building up your CV, it's pointless. I taught undergraduates at university so I'm well aware of the flaws of that system and the way that it's been cynically marketed to young people.

I think more are fantasists.

@sst1234

For every thread from a woman who is financially dependent on her partner, we need one from a high earning woman who tells everyone about the effort and trade offs she has to make to be successful. Unless and until parents teach their daughters that being driven by money is not crass and being financially independent should be a bigger priority ahead of starting a family, the types of threads from dependent women will continue to be a wake up call about the biggest thing holding women back.

A SAHM with a high earning husband isn't financially independent. Precisely the opposite, and rude shocks often await for those actually living that life.

I'm certainly not a high earner, and neither is my husband. We're comfortable, in that we own our own home (but it's a small house) and can afford a holiday every year (but not always abroad).
We earn enough not to get any tax credits but not so much that we're not entitled to child benefit.

@CounsellorTroi

The posts that amuse me are the ones about nannies, like it's a perfectly normal thing to employ a live in nanny.

Or a team of live in nannies, to cope with your and your DH’s Jetset lifestyle, travelling the world, sealing deals. In your 20s

Yep, I know plenty of London investment bankers, and even in their 40s they may have one nanny, or they may send their kid to nursery for 50 hours a week and argue about who is doing drop off. They do not have teams of nannies providing 24hr care while they and their partner are both out of the country. You would need to be a multimillionaire to afford that, not a banker and a hospital consultant.

I also think there are ways to spin, or be selective with, the truth. I live in a lovely 4 bed Victorian house in London. So people might think I must earn a lot, but it’s rented from a housing association (something I make no secret of on here). My earnings are I’d say middleish, a lot better than MW but not what I would deem as “high”. But my outgoings are very low, DC all grown up, so I can afford a lifestyle that again might suggest I earn more than I do.

I could make myself sound a lot better off than I actually am and I wouldn’t be lying as such, just omitting a few facts.

I think alot of people lie OP.

People who really do have that to invest, know exactly where to go for advice and this place is not where they would turn to

That’s only true when you’re investing your second and subsequent significant sum of money.

The first time how would you know? Especially if your friends and family are not likely to have been in that position. Why not ask MN? There’s loads of really experienced, qualified people who post on here and whilst I’d advise against taking professional advice without performing due diligence MN is an excellent starting point.

I have had brilliant advice from MN, from the poster who first told me about the importance of negotiating a sign on bonus and what to aim for (I had no idea!) over 10 years ago and the MNer who drafted my will (despite me being a 30 something lawyer with dependent DC I’d never got round to it
)

I try to pass both those bits of advice and others on.

It's not just the class or income of other MNetters that intrigues me, it's the time they seem to have.
So not only are they in a senior position at work that pays huge amounts, they have 2 or 3 impeccably behaved and well-socialised children, a large group of (also very senior well-paid) friends, perhaps a horse or two, definitely a dog. Weekends are for visiting NT properties, before hosting supper parties. All meals cooked from scratch, even if they've only just arrived home from watching Arabella at ballet class.
Of course they have a huge mountain of books, and quietly judge those that don't read voraciously...

...and yet they still find the time to post on just about every thread on Mumsnet 🤔

@sst1234

For every thread from a woman who is financially dependent on her partner, we need one from a high earning woman who tells everyone about the effort and trade offs she has to make to be successful

They’ve been a few really good threads over the years aimed at high earning women. One memorably started by a woman who was really clear that she was on the way up and wanted advice from women who had got there.

They always get derailed by posters making accusations that posters are bragging on fantasists. It’s a bit shit really.

I keep reading people mentioning 5 ovens?

People would have a SHOCK if they saw my cooker. We're saving for an extension so don't see the point in buying nice things when what we have works fine.

Our £30 cooker is smaller than the 'cooker gap' in the kitchen and is pretty naff but I still managed to cook Christmas dinner on it for 11 people (Dec 2019).

In-laws have an Aga and they are the worst. So terrible to cook on. Theirs is quite cool for some reason so it take double the time to cook anything compared to our shitty oven.

Regarding whether we're middle class or not. Yeah probably but we don't spend money frivolously and avoid debt (other than mortgage which we overpay). We love nothing better than hiking and seeking out trig points over spending a fortune eating out/drinking etc. Add a weekend camping in a tent and I'm in heaven!

Husband's family are ridiculously middle class however. Country cottage with the bloody aga, holiday cottage rentals, some other rental property, privately educated children, owned sail boats, caravans, campervans the lot. Expensive holidays abroad (pre Covid). All the luxury gets taken for granted.