To be shocked at how normal everything looks in New Zealand?

[GoldenLabbie]

Huge crowds seeing the New Year. No masks, no social distancing. You wouldn’t know that the rest of the world is in the grip of a pandemic looking at those scenes. How did we manage to get it so wrong but they got it so right? When you look at that you realise how the rest have screwed up so badly don’t you? I wonder what they make of all?

Usually I let these go by but after so many it gets wearing, and it is a ridiculous comparison.

It really isn’t, but let’s not start it all again .

All these threads do is stir up anti U.K. posts like ‘laughing stock’ / people can’t follow rules etc etc

It doesn’t help the people here living through it. Even if it’s satisfying to pile on. We know it’s dire already.

but I think a short sharp lockdown would work better than tier systems

Remember all that debate before half term about having a circuit breaker - that Boris dismissed and then eventually introduced but a few weeks later.

He always acts just a bit too late.

I'm tired of hearing UK talked about as though it was only country in world being imperfect. The British habit of bashing selves gets old. All Europe is struggling. South America is disaster. South Korea is going into Tier1 conditions. Hong Kong schools yoyo open/closed. China has to shut down whole cities for long spells if they find even one case. Even saintly NZ has worries. Nobody is getting a truly easy ride.

My American relatives have started getting vaccinated, including the early 50s gal like me. Is that because USA are doing an amazing job with virus response? Not remotely.

@MarshaBradyo I agree compare to germany and yes you have a point
I mean we could all say to australia why haven't you done as well as nz your in exactly the same position when this started but we know this isn't strictly true

I think you ve been quite reasonable Marsha, offering a slightly different pov.

for me its what happens here that is the main thing and when i hear what is happening in Schools, with vaccines, NHS overwhelmed - staff at breaking point... i can't help but think we have screwed up.

I am also full of admiration for JA, she has done exceptionally well but she also did very well when that country had its terrible shooting spree too, she is a leader, not just a politician.

@donewithitalltodayandxmas spot on

@EileenGc so you happily travelled to the uk and back to spain a couple times , where as I cancelled my spanish holiday in the summer even loosing a £1000 deposit as I didn't think it was safe to travel across countries

He always acts just a bit too late.

He really does. I remember around the 15/17th of March when Germany locked down completely. All in one go, no hesitation. My friend in London was going to a concert at the O2 that night. UK's numbers were much higher but Boris was keeping calm, going on about his herd immunity idea, and telling people to sing happy birthday. You couldn't make it up.

it’s not about apologists. We know the reality of our dire situation.

But by definition and apologist is someone who defends a controversial opinion. Your controversial opinion is that because of U.K. specific-reasons the current situation was fairly inevitable.

I don’t agree that you shouldn’t compare to Australia (as you said upthread). Free travel within the U.K. and into it with no enforced quarantine or mandatory testing wasn’t untenable, in spite of “international hub”, reasons, London being population dense reasons, (the virus is out of London, I understand) people coming in from China in Jan reasons, even though more came into Australia. Boris would apparently have been vilified for tightening borders because this was against some expert advice, even though he missed the first half dozen consul station meetings because holidays.

@jasjas1973 I think we would all love to have a jacinda as she comes across as a strong leader a character we have not had in the uk from any party for a while
As much as lots disliked her we prob all know maggie would of handled things her way and that would of prob been hard and fast

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@EileenGc so you happily travelled to the uk and back to spain a couple times , where as I cancelled my spanish holiday in the summer even loosing a £1000 deposit as I didn't think it was safe to travel across countries [/quote]
I didn't travel between UK and Spain, I don't live in either of those countries.

I wasn't going on holiday, I was working. Ever heard of freelance musicians that don't only work in their own country?

I didn't happily travel anywhere. I was being tested and quarantined every time I had to. At my own expense. And travelling is safe. Having no testing and quarantine surveillance for returning travellers, isn't.

@nolongersurprised so why has australia not done as well as new zealand ?

Boris was keeping calm, going on about his herd immunity idea,

I thought he said that too, there’s articles about it and everything. But apparently he never said that, according to some on the thread.

'Remember all that debate before half term about having a circuit breaker - that Boris dismissed and then eventually introduced but a few weeks later'

Wales had a firebreak. Completely ineffective, the lockdown we had in Nov was as cases soared. We can't live in constant lockdown all they can do is try and suppress when it surges to allow for nhs capacity.

It's all very sad when you think in sep as numbers climbed so many on here argued restrictions not needed and to 'live with it', apparently oblivious to living with it, in many cases, requires hospital treatment.

@nolongersurprised

it’s not about apologists. We know the reality of our dire situation.

But by definition and apologist is someone who defends a controversial opinion. Your controversial opinion is that because of U.K. specific-reasons the current situation was fairly inevitable.

I don’t agree that you shouldn’t compare to Australia (as you said upthread). Free travel within the U.K. and into it with no enforced quarantine or mandatory testing wasn’t untenable, in spite of “international hub”, reasons, London being population dense reasons, (the virus is out of London, I understand) people coming in from China in Jan reasons, even though more came into Australia. Boris would apparently have been vilified for tightening borders because this was against some expert advice, even though he missed the first half dozen consul station meetings because holidays.

My opinion is we could not have achieved what NZ did

Which is a different question to could we have seen a lower death rate eg more like Germany?

Since no one had said we could all be here drinking fizz at NYE parties we seem to agree.

I am not saying that it isn’t bad. It is it’s hard here right now.

But NZ? No I don’t think we could have.

@EileenGC ok you made it sound like you are in spain but you still travelled to the uk
And pcr tests are not totally reliable

'so why has australia not done as well as new zealand ?'

That'll be baccaue they didn't 'go hard' and don't have Jacinda 'the legend' running the show.

I have a friend in public health - the contacting and follow up testing of those exposed is labour-intensive.

There is a reason why NSW contact tracing is regarded as the gold star :)

I'm not crazy about Berejiklian, the NSW Premier but one thing I will always appreciate from her is that she put public health first. And I say this because being a conservative her track and trace team, the people in charge of quarantine and her epidemiology team are NSW Health system. No private consultants, no political advisers - just public health teams.

She's been investing big on public hospitals for last 5 years (probably something to do with her Armenian background) and its paying off in this pandemic.

If people want to say we did a terrible job we could have had lower death rate on the EU table.

Post away not an issue here. But this is the doing better alternative imo not NZ one

nolongersurprised so why has australia not done as well as new zealand ?

Our new cases are from overseas travellers. There are more returning to Australia than NZ. The “weak links” are the people who by necessity need to interact with them to keep them alive and secure until their period is up. Most of the time it’s worked but there have been mistakes.

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@EileenGC ok you made it sound like you are in spain but you still travelled to the uk
And pcr tests are not totally reliable[/quote]
If you read my posts you would've seen I travelled to those countries, from another one.

PCR tests are not reliable - so if you got symptoms, you wouldn't get tested? NHS tests are PCRs. Lateral flow tests (aka quick tests) are the ones that aren't reliable. Yet Boris wants to use them in schools.
PCRs are as reliable as they get. 99% accuracy. My company makes us have them 3 times per week, we have no social distancing and no outbreaks have happened. Big, densely populated city. So I assume they're reliable for travel as well, if used correctly and efficiently.

@nolongersurprise you can google exactly what he said something about one of the ideas is to take it on the chin etc , but he said but we have to strike a balance so people have interpreted that as though he said yes we are going for herd immunity , was it considered no doubt it probably was by many a country before much was known but we are not privvy to private conversations

Yes Thatcher! i could never vote for her BUT she was a leader, had a science background.
She also had an experienced cabinet around her.

One of the issues with Johnson is he is inexperienced but then surrounded himself with inexperienced ministers, picked for their views on Brexit.

But fundamentally, he is an entertainer, as the producer of Have i got news for you said "he was a comedian as host and panelist, a natural comic" or words to this effect.

It's why he did well as Mayor of London, nothing too taxing to concern him, photo op's, zip wires!.

@nolongersurprised so you have different variables to nz which you take in to account ? Ironic