To be shocked at how normal everything looks in New Zealand?

[GoldenLabbie]

Huge crowds seeing the New Year. No masks, no social distancing. You wouldn’t know that the rest of the world is in the grip of a pandemic looking at those scenes. How did we manage to get it so wrong but they got it so right? When you look at that you realise how the rest have screwed up so badly don’t you? I wonder what they make of all?

*As I mentioned upthread it looks like that story was "fake news", but the MSM in the UK are not going to be issuing a clarification anytime soon8

Yep sorry, you are correct on the fleeing quarantine stuff but 100s still allowed to go there?

It’s important for the very beginning of the pandemic. The timing and spread right at start. Obviously those countries will be hit harder via the cities - London / NYC high levels of tourism daily, attractive to Chinese tourists

Australia and NZ attract many more visitors from China than the UK. 1.5 million to Australia, fewer than 500,000 to UK.

www.austrade.gov.au/news/economic-analysis/china-takes-top-spot-in-australias-tourist-rankings

www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202001/31/WS5e33d4a0a310128217273e09.html

@jasjas1973

Yep, Marsha, timing is everything, NZ locked down ahead of the evidence, we waited until the evidence was overwhelming.

I don't believe we could ever have had eradication but we could have had far lower infections/deaths in first wave.

The new more contagious strain is a different matter, i don't know how we deal with that now... another national LD seems very likely given the NHS crisis, with strict enforcement.

Yes but we did it in the same date. Do you think that having evidence from ROW helped? Say if our equivalent was Jan, we had no precedent, no guidance from WHO even. In virus timescales it’s vastly different.

Before the evidence in NZ wasn’t before the evidence anywhere as it would have been here.

However yes on a different question deaths could have been lower. Iirc Germany timed it earlier. But also see who was it in EE that had a very strict initial lockdown then bad rates shooting up? This shows you can have a tiny first wave but the second can be worse as it just delays it.

Maybe we should have done it earlier. Some thought the North was too early as London timescale. Do you think so?

Sorry, meant just Australia not NZ.

As i said earlier, i don't blame the govt so much for the Feb/March delays as the knowledge was zero and everyone was flying blind, some did better than others.

Its the not checking of arrivals, removing all restrictions in the summer, weeks of delay whilst we charged headlong into the winter crisis, even now delay and dithering on schools.... FFS make a bloody decision!!!

Australia and NZ attract many more visitors from China than the UK. 1.5 million to Australia, fewer than 500,000 to UK.

No point in facts notbad. Instead you need to open your ears

@nolongersurprised

Australia and NZ attract many more visitors from China than the UK. 1.5 million to Australia, fewer than 500,000 to UK.

No point in facts notbad. Instead you need to open your ears

Apparently not NZ after all

@nolongersurprised

Australia and NZ attract many more visitors from China than the UK. 1.5 million to Australia, fewer than 500,000 to UK.

No point in facts notbad. Instead you need to open your ears

I can’t remember do you still think we could have done the same as NZ?

It’s incredibly disrespectful to NZ to have no understanding of how busy Auckland airport is and how it serves the region. You give the impression you think NZ and Auckland is just a quiet little backwater

I’m sorry if you feel the truth is disrespectful 😂

It is a quiet little backwater

Australia and NZ attract many more visitors from China than the UK. 1.5 million to Australia, fewer than 500,000 to UK

Plus the more than 260,000 Chinese students in Australia in 2019.

www.statista.com/statistics/430276/number-of-chinese-students-in-australia-by-education-sector/

You know, the Chinese full of virus.

@Alondra

Australia and NZ attract many more visitors from China than the UK. 1.5 million to Australia, fewer than 500,000 to UK

Plus the more than 260,000 Chinese students in Australia in 2019.

www.statista.com/statistics/430276/number-of-chinese-students-in-australia-by-education-sector/

You know, the Chinese full of virus.

No response on timing then?

It is a quiet little backwater

No wonder as*les like you are detested by so many internationally.

But you accept that a country that has millions of Chinese tourists arrive each year, who would have been flying in for Australian summer in February, was capable of recognising the risk of that, putting in restrictions and quarantine rules, and as a result could better protect its community? And your point that the UK couldn’t do that with significantly fewer Chinese tourists doesn’t add up?

@NotBadConsidering

But you accept that a country that has millions of Chinese tourists arrive each year, who would have been flying in for Australian summer in February, was capable of recognising the risk of that, putting in restrictions and quarantine rules, and as a result could better protect its community? And your point that the UK couldn’t do that with significantly fewer Chinese tourists doesn’t add up?

It’s about sheer numbers arriving in London in Jan

Same or different?

Lots of chinese also travel to italy to do with fashion I belive and lots of uk cases came from italy and across europe from ski trips

Also the uk has something like 30 odd million visitiOrs a year

It’s still a relevant point re Australia.

These posts sound like the erstwhile “American exceptionalism” belief.

The U.K. couldn’t have done any better because... reasons. I don’t think eradication would ever have been possible in the U.K. but I have had my ears open and there hasn’t been a single reason that justifies the UK allowing people to enter freely, with no testing or mandatory quarantine. It makes a mockery of your local lockdowns - what’s the point?

Which - “but we’re special and the U.K. “ - argument justifies this?

'Cornwall T1 low infections.... johnson introduces T3 and 4 areas but allows unrestricted travel to Cornwall.... just a guideline not too....now we are T3. Why didn't he do what France did and have a 100km (or less in the much smaller UK) travel restriction?'

We've had 'lockdown' protests, numerous threads about the stasi gov removing our 'civil liberties'. Mumsnet was up in arms about covid marshals and of course if we object to the neighbours flouting we are curtain twitching busybodies. Exclusion zones would not have been tolerated. Actually Wales restricted travel and that didn't stop it.

Existing travel restrictions haven't been monitored or enforced, however France needed slips of paper to leave the house and in nov they had 60k cases so it doesn't actually work. Compliance, isolating and not mixing households seems to be the biggest issue, not the fact Boris hasn't told us what not to do, when he has.

Anyway. Oxford astrazeneca vaccine on its way. Something positive!

Plus the more than 260,000 Chinese students in Australia in 2019

They are normally resident in Oz so wouldn’t be of any concern (besides being stuck in Oz with no real way to get back if they want to continue their studies)

Also the uk has something like 30 odd million visitiOrs a year

And Spain and Italy over 80 million. Which is the reason they were the hardest hit in the first wave.

The question is....why is your country doing so bad now?

@alondra your death Rate oer capita is 1 behind the uk , thats not doing well
Also look how many tests a day the uk goverment now do compared to many other countries of course you will pick up more cases
In many places in the uk you can have a test with no symptoms

@Alondra

It is a quiet little backwater

No wonder as*les like you are detested by so many internationally.

Are you assuming I’m British? Because I’m not.

Just accept that what is done in NZ has no relevance to the outside world 😂

@nolongersurprised

It’s still a relevant point re Australia.

These posts sound like the erstwhile “American exceptionalism” belief.

The U.K. couldn’t have done any better because... reasons. I don’t think eradication would ever have been possible in the U.K. but I have had my ears open and there hasn’t been a single reason that justifies the UK allowing people to enter freely, with no testing or mandatory quarantine. It makes a mockery of your local lockdowns - what’s the point?

Which - “but we’re special and the U.K. “ - argument justifies this?

I would have preferred a reaction that was considered reasonable after new UK variant. Over 40 countries reacted.

As it was very few were given guidance to do the same early Jan.

It was far easier to do this in March when ROW was suffering.

As you say eradication was not possible we agree. I don’t have an issue with people listing all the wrong decisions, list away. Just drop comparison to NZ as it’s not relevant.

Of course I can see the situation we’re in. But as long as we’ll all say ok we couldn’t gave been NZ on NYE I’m fine.

I think that’s what grates people the most. That countries that are perceived to be unimportant backwaters, not as busy, not as Great, couldn’t possibly have done well. They don’t have to deal with all the important stuff like trade, international travel, and big things like good old Great Britain has to deal with. Don’t you know it’s sooo much harder in the UK that simple measures that work in ickle countries couldn’t have possibly have worked there. You can’t expect and effective government to do things well! It’s far too complex a place for that.

In many places in the uk you can have a test with no symptoms

Oh, well done. You mean like Australia has been offering for months?