To be shocked at how normal everything looks in New Zealand?

[GoldenLabbie]

Huge crowds seeing the New Year. No masks, no social distancing. You wouldn’t know that the rest of the world is in the grip of a pandemic looking at those scenes. How did we manage to get it so wrong but they got it so right? When you look at that you realise how the rest have screwed up so badly don’t you? I wonder what they make of all?

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'But Spain is doing much better. Look at the comparison of deaths. Why has Spain learnt its lesson?'

Different stages of the pandemic...for the trillionth time look at worldometers for per capita data.

How does that explain they’re at different stages of the pandemic? Their death rate has dropped significantly where the UK’s keeps rising.

I'm in Guernsey and living as normal. But, this is a tiny island with one government where implementing a rule is fairly simple. Checks at the airport and harbour with 14 day isolation increased to 21 if you refuse the 13 day test. some have not followed the rules and have been fined. We are luck here and I don't even own a face mask.

"Test, test, test. Those were the words."

They were. But I think now we are doing more tests than many other countries aren't we - and recently Sage has said it isn't having much of an impact. Would be useful to know why it isn't - is it that the results take too long so contacts are identified too late, and if so how could that be addressed? Or are we still not doing enough tests - or is testing, in fact, not the answer, for reasons we may not yet understand?

@notbadconsidering the uk recognised the new variant we are actually only second to denmark on that
It may well of originated here we don't know yet but genomics is one thing we do well and why australia were able to recognise the new strain

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@notbadconsidering what are spain doing so different ? Have they shut there borders ? [/quote]
Each region in Spain has their own local government which is "autonomous" as we call it (I'm Spanish) and in charge of their own rules.

Yes, many regions (not all) closed their internal borders over Christmas. In fact some have been closed since October and the 'state of alarm' nationally is due to end on the 9th of May. You can't go from one area to the other without proof of residence or why your trip is essential. For example, people could leave Madrid to go to their second residences/relatives' homes if they wanted, but their destination province wouldn't let them in. So you could travel out of some areas but not in to others. Surprise surprise, those areas that closed their internal borders are seeing a decrease in cases now.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'Because Mumsnet isn’t full of New Yorkers and Spaniards pretending life ain’t so bad'

Oh life is bad, this virus has caused devastation. I feel for everyone who has lost a loved one. I didn't laugh at France in Nov when they had high numbers because I knew their leaders like everywhere are doing the best they can.

So please stop the laughing, the bigotry, the gloating about 'British arrogance'. Try a bit of kindness and compassion and just be glad your country's variables mean it has been easier to control. Like our Isles of Scilly.

I’m not laughing. I’’m not gloating. I’m devastated. My family in the UK (in the North West of England) is suffering because of this and I am living a normal life and the only explanation for the difference is government mismanagement and apologists for the government perpetuate the idea that “it’s as good as could be expected” when it really, really isn’t.

-They were. But I think now we are doing more tests than many other countries aren't we - and recently Sage has said it isn't having much of an impact.

Contact tracing is very time-intensive. If you’re recording 56 000 cases/day that’s a huge number of cases to trace and 100 000s of people to contact..

@Aixenprovence we are doing a lot of tests daily now and picking up a lot of asymptomatic cases , no idea why test test test isn't working as well , what people don't understand is that we still have a lot to learn about this virus and why it affects some more than others
What things worked and what things maybe were pointless or in fact accelerated it , so many variables between countries as well

Why has Spain learnt its lesson?

Because they've listened to the medical advisers in how to manage (not prevent) a second wave. The central government has given power to the 17 autonomous regions to manage the pandemic - from closing borders with other regions to lockdown areas.

It has also acknowledged that aerosol transmission in classrooms is an issue and the only way to keep kids in school is with full ventilation (windows open) even in winter.

It's not disimilar to what Australia has done, let states manage the pandemic. So far, it seems to be working.

@Aixenprovence

"Test, test, test. Those were the words."

They were. But I think now we are doing more tests than many other countries aren't we - and recently Sage has said it isn't having much of an impact. Would be useful to know why it isn't - is it that the results take too long so contacts are identified too late, and if so how could that be addressed? Or are we still not doing enough tests - or is testing, in fact, not the answer, for reasons we may not yet understand?

Testing in itself achieves little.

Without quick and effective isolation, its just a stats exercise.

We had an outbreak of CV in two local pubs (pre T3) several people were contacted 5 days out, despite using the app to scan in, they subsequently tested positive.
I know 2 of these people personally, so its not an urban rumour.

NotBad

You’re not here. It’s not about apologists. We know the reality of our dire situation. We don’t need pointless threads comparing us to NZ over and over.

Contact-tracing works very well when the country has new case levels in the teens to 20s.

@EileenGc but do you not accept that per capita your figures are not good either
And hopefully spain doesn't have this new strain in large numbers
This new strain is whats causing cases here to rise as sa one is there , can people not also see that
Has spain canceled all holidays from other deatinations as they like uk were open in the summer
Other countries then?

"Contact tracing is very time-intensive. If you’re recording 56 000 cases/day that’s a huge number of cases to trace and 100 000s of people to contact.."

Good point - yet on the other hand we hear people who work for t and t saying they have been underemployed. Would be useful to investigate exactly what is happening and how it could be improved.
As pp said, of course it's not the testing but the isolation that matters - how could we improve speed of contacting people?

'I'm in Guernsey and living as normal. But, this is a tiny island with one government where implementing a rule is fairly simple. Checks at the airport and harbour with 14 day isolation increased to 21 if you refuse the 13 day test. some have not followed the rules and have been fined. We are luck here and I don't even own a face mask.'

Yes and it really is lovely to hear people are living normally and understand how their circumstances allow for that.

Because they've listened to the medical advisers in how to manage (not prevent) a second wave.

This. Same as Germany did. You can't prevent a new wave, but you can certainly manage it instead of acting surprised by it when it hits.

Back in October, my city in Germany went in panic mode when 5% (!!!) of their ICU beds were taken up with Covid cases. They started planning and preparing for a new wave there and then. Now we're riding the big new wave of cases and ICU occupancy hasn't ever gone above 35%. I'm shocked when I read other countries being at 80% or not having enough oxygen. I'm in one of the highest incidence areas of the country and we're at 170 per 100,000! Yet the healthcare system hasn't ever been compromised because those in charge took sensible precautions and learnt from their mistake in the first wave and other countries'.

@alondra we don't have states in the uk though , and in my kids schools the windows have been open they wear coats in schools and we have had only a couple of cases so are very lucky
Not all uk schools have windows that open much as many buildings are old and our schools are very full
I think we are too overpopulated for the siZe of our island and infrastructure and this has played a huge part in spread as its been more contained in smaller towns and areas and I al lucky that although our numbers have risen where I am , we still have slightly smaller class sizes and a lower population density and a lower rate

This new strain is whats causing cases here to rise as sa one is there, can people not also see that

Yes, known about since mid December, new strain ID'd in September, rising cases in Kent for weeks.

Nothing done until it became a national problem.

Australia - as well as other countries - are doing frequent sewage testing which was reassuring re the new Sydney cases. It showed that there was no evidence of baseline community infection before the first test turned up.

I have a friend in public health - the contacting and follow up testing of those exposed is labour-intensive.

@MarshaBradyo

NotBad

You’re not here. It’s not about apologists. We know the reality of our dire situation. We don’t need pointless threads comparing us to NZ over and over.

You’re right, it is pointless because many other people refuse to accept that, extreme goodness of NZ notwithstanding, the UK could have done better. I still think the NZ comparison is valid, you don’t. Fair enough. I still think comparing to hundreds of other countries is valid, you do to some degree. Probably best both of us avoid these threads in the future.

@nolongersurprised yes it is labour intensive so tracing 7 is easier than thousands
Tbh i would rather see a full lockdown here like march now whilst we accelerate the vaccines but many still want schools open for work purposes but I think a short sharp lockdown would work better than tier systems , the lockdown worked in march and doing the same again could get numbers down quicker and mean less measures long term in my opinion but I an not a scientist but it wouldn't suprise me if this happens in couple weeks , which will be 2 weeks wasted

NotBad if it had been a country I do think you can compare to eg Germany to say we could have done better. No issue at all.

If I don’t see another but we are an yeh and like NZ post I’ll be happy about that.

Usually I let these go by but after so many it gets wearing, and it is a ridiculous comparison.

we don't have states in the uk though

We don't. But do we need for people to travel all over the country, go to neighbouring cities etc when there is a pandemic.

I live in York. I haven't been to a big city apart from York since the pandemic started.

But people from other big cities are coming to our city. And bringing their infections with them.

@jasjas1973 known about didn't mean they knew it would spread like this its not the only time a different strain has shown and when numbers went up a lot and they realised why tier 4 was introduced , it wasn't known in sept that it would become so rampant as could of been another strain that did

@donewithitalltodayandxmas

1. some of Spain still allows travel for leisure purposes into the country, but there are measures around it. You don't board the plane if you don't have a negative PCR test, and on landing you don't leave the airport until you've scanned your QR code and your details have been checked. I've flown to and from the UK a few times over the summer and autumn, no one ever checked my paperwork at the airport or made sure I would complying with testing/quarantine measures. NO ONE. I could just fly in and out if I wanted, because the UK has put no system in place to test and isolate new arrivals.

2. Schools in Spain, Germany and many other countries, are also full. One of my siblings has 32 classmates and they're learning in half of the library, separated from the other half by a felt screen. That's because their classrooms were too small, so they had to get creative. Children from the age of 6 have to wear a mask at school, for the whole day. The school day is 9-5 in Spain, no one moans about it. Small children are actually more mask-compliant than adults, don't even notice it, and tell you if you're not wearing it properly. It's sweet and sad at the same time how these children are growing up, but people just get on with it.