To be shocked at how normal everything looks in New Zealand?

[GoldenLabbie]

Huge crowds seeing the New Year. No masks, no social distancing. You wouldn’t know that the rest of the world is in the grip of a pandemic looking at those scenes. How did we manage to get it so wrong but they got it so right? When you look at that you realise how the rest have screwed up so badly don’t you? I wonder what they make of all?

'Which - “but we’re special and the U.K. “ - argument justifies this?'

Yes and British exceptionalism and we're arrogant and there was the irrelevant story a a prat of a British commander in ww2 a few pages back and Jacinda is a legend. That's the xenophobic gist of it.

They are normally resident in Oz so wouldn’t be of any concern (besides being stuck in Oz with no real way to get back if they want to continue their studies)

By the time the pandemic hit, most of them were in China on the summer break. There were huge issues with students not been able to return to Australia (like most Australians or residents) when Australia closed borders. Even today there are limited numbers of Australians, Kiwis and residents of both countries able to return (with mandatory 14 day paid quarantine).

@Alondra

Also the uk has something like 30 odd million visitiOrs a year

And Spain and Italy over 80 million. Which is the reason they were the hardest hit in the first wave.

The question is....why is your country doing so bad now?

Spain and Italy above U.K.

It’s about sheer numbers arriving in London in Jan. Same or different?

But I asked you about visitors from China. Australia had a much bigger problem to deal with than the UK didn’t it, in contrast to what you said?

Existing travel restrictions haven't been monitored or enforced, however France needed slips of paper to leave the house and in nov they had 60k cases so it doesn't actually work. Compliance, isolating and not mixing households seems to be the biggest issue, not the fact Boris hasn't told us what not to do, when he has

I cycled a lot during the first LD, roads and towns were deserted, excellent compliance, this vanished once we had the Cummings debacle, had he been instantly dismissed, i think things would be different now.
Govt has to make the hard decisions, ignoring popular opinion, the population don't hve the facts.

Anyway. Oxford astrazeneca vaccine on its way. Something positive!

Agree, but months before it will make any difference, even longer if the Govt doesn't get its act together.

@NotBadConsidering

I think that’s what grates people the most. That countries that are perceived to be unimportant backwaters, not as busy, not as Great, couldn’t possibly have done well. They don’t have to deal with all the important stuff like trade, international travel, and big things like good old Great Britain has to deal with. Don’t you know it’s sooo much harder in the UK that simple measures that work in ickle countries couldn’t have possibly have worked there. You can’t expect and effective government to do things well! It’s far too complex a place for that.

That’s crazy I’m afraid. You need to consider location and timing and virus.

@nolongersurprised you don't live here so really its not your issue is it , its a very anti uk thread really as europe has been hit hard yet no mention of how bad they have done, its all just the uk and was about nz nothing to do with australia whatsoever

Marsha Infection rates and deaths are recorded differently, testing rates also have to be considered, they offer a guide only.

Look at excess deaths over the 5 year avg? not perfect but gives a clearer picture.

@notbadconsidering its not just china it came from how many visitors does australia have a day , compared to uk a lot less
It wasn't confined to just china by then and you may have 1.5 million but they don't all arrive in jan

@jasjas1973

Marsha Infection rates and deaths are recorded differently, testing rates also have to be considered, they offer a guide only.

Look at excess deaths over the 5 year avg? not perfect but gives a clearer picture.

JasJas what are your thoughts on timing of lockdown for North? Was it too early?

I’m not sure but have seen it on here.

Spain and Italy above U.K

But look at the graphs of deaths now. Spain has dropped significantly. The UK’s and Italy’s haven’t. Why has Spain learned its lesson but Italy and the UK haven’t?

As you say eradication was not possible we agree. I don’t have an issue with people listing all the wrong decisions, list away. Just drop comparison to NZ as it’s not relevant.

A few pages back though you said comparisons to Australia should also be dropped. Australia hasn’t officially tried to eradicate, knowing it’s probably unfeasible. Yet zero community spread for most of the country has meant that for most of the country day-to-day life is pretty normal.

The U.K. has demonstrated their poverty of aspiration, really.

'That countries that are perceived to be unimportant backwaters, not as busy, not as Great, couldn’t possibly have done well. They don’t have to deal with all the important stuff like trade, international travel, and big things like good old Great Britain has to deal with. Don’t you know it’s sooo much harder in the UK that simple measures that work in ickle countries couldn’t have possibly have worked there.'

Not as Great 🙄🙄. Honestly this thread! Nothing to do with 'being great', just 64m, 245 per sq mile travel hub as opposed to 5m, 24 per sq mile isolated island. It isn't a popularity contest these are just relevant rather inconvenient facts.

@notbadconsidering is it not easier to control a country with 5 million and low cases rather than one with nearly 70 million and higher cases
The uk was never in a position to eradicate it was always to control
The new variant has also taken that away as it seems measures are not necessarily working
I think in peak times uk has something like 1-2 million arrivals a day , 30 million a year thats a travel hub

Being on an island where we can control who comes in and out of our country should have given us an advantage.

We have a lot of scientific knowledge, skills and know how here which should have given us an advantage.

It took a long time to scale up testing - because we went for large mega labs instead of using local resources and local skills.

It took a long time to get effective contact testing - because we went for centralised testing instead of using experience local contact testers and local public health officials.

You can see the pattern here. Centralised Government thinking it knows best and using centralised resources instead of using local experts.

And it was being told this at the start of the pandemic. But Government ignored it.

Test, test, test. Those were the words.

@GetOffYourHighHorse i know simple facts that are being twisted around , no one is saying nz still haven't done well as if they had left borders open it could be a different story for them , but uk and nz can. Not be compared
Uk and spain , uk and france , uk and germany , yes maybe and unfortunately europe as a whole has not fared to well in this
But now turned into by some a very anti uk thread

'But look at the graphs of deaths now. Spain has dropped significantly. The UK’s and Italy’s haven’t. Why has Spain learned its lesson but Italy and the UK haven’t?'

Erm, different stages of the pandemic. For example France had 60k in Nov when we had 20k now their numbers are down and ours are up, I thought everyone knew this different countries are at different stages?!

Marsha

I don't know where you get that from but I wouldn't put much trust on it. The rate of infection in Spain one third of the UK right now. Average daily deaths are 145

elpais.com/sociedad/2020-12-14/el-mapa-del-coronavirus-en-el-mundo-asi-avanzan-los-contagios-y-las-muertes-dia-a-dia.html

[quote Alondra]Marsha

I don't know where you get that from but I wouldn't put much trust on it. The rate of infection in Spain one third of the UK right now. Average daily deaths are 145

elpais.com/sociedad/2020-12-14/el-mapa-del-coronavirus-en-el-mundo-asi-avanzan-los-contagios-y-las-muertes-dia-a-dia.html[/quote]
Here

www.statista.com/statistics/1111779/coronavirus-death-rate-europe-by-country/

@chomalungma an island that relies heavily on goods coming across by road from europe
Yes testing needed to be quicker and hopefully this has taught us not to outsource this to mainly other countries , thats why germany did well at beginning
But even now they are having huge resurges

@Alondra from the reported facts on sites such as worldometer if you look at per capita
You can also see how many tests each country is doing daily wtc
More tests will also mean more picked up as some are asymptomatic

That’s crazy I’m afraid. You need to consider location and timing and virus.

But it’s a simple fact that the vast majority of the world has managed Covid significantly better than the UK. Barring those obvious countries, so much of the rest of the world (location) took action (timing) at the right time with the same disease (SARS-CoV2 virus) and have saved lives. So to dismiss the actions of virtually all countries around the world apart from maybe 10 is crazy.

New Zealand’s numbers may not have been possible achieve. But NZ just more starkly exemplifies how swift action, decisive leadership, respect for science and care of its citizens helped saved lives. This thread could have been about any of the hundred plus countries who have done better. And it could have been about any of the comparable countries for population, busyness, transit, arrivals, whatever.

The sooner the UK wakes up to the fact you’ve been completely utterly shafted the better. It saddens me that such a country accepts such poor standards of care and leadership.

@NotBadConsidering baring italy , belgium and spain not far behind also america , but yes whole world has managed better
We aren't great but per capita joint 10th so not the worst and location , timing, age of population and so many other things will play a factor thats just facts and it will be several years before we have all these details fully , country by country ir understand why some where affected more than others

Leaving Australia and NZ aside, I have to agree with Alondra on this.

The UK is Europe's (and probably the world's) laughing stock at the moment due to how badly the pandemic has been handled there. Which makes me incredibly sad because I spent many years living in the UK, I have friends and family there, and I consider it more home than my own home country.

Their handling of the pandemic has been, and continues to be laughable. It's not just about the numbers of cases and deaths. It's about the shitty government who don't know what they're talking about and do a U turn-around every two days. Christmas mixing allowed over 5 days (in a pandemic!!??), then Christmas mixing banned. Schools are safe, then schools aren't safe and we do some non-reliable tests instead of isolating close contacts. Arrivals from risk areas should quarantine for 14 days but we have no way of controlling it, so people just don't bother. Masks are compulsory but there are 837534 reasons why you could be exempt, and no one can ask you for proof of exemption or it might be labelled as discrimination. Don't even get me started on the new vaccination plan. What is this, a pick and choose Burger King menu?

Italy, Germany, Spain, France and a long etc. They at least tried to do something and used a bit of common sense. They did some mistakes along the way, but they're currently in a much better state than the UK.

Everyone talking about Germany's rise in cases. As if this were some kind of competition, "let's see who did worse today". Yes the numbers are high, but every single time Angela Merkel comes on TV to announce new measures, she also presents five new financial packages and income protection schemes for all those affected. So we're introducing new rule X, but here are schemes A, B and C so you don't have to worry about it.

It's called leadership, and willingness from the population to pull together instead of moaning all the time and blaming it on anyone but themselves.

'The sooner the UK wakes up to the fact you’ve been completely utterly shafted the better. It saddens me that such a country accepts such poor standards of care and leadership'

Same position as France Spain Italy just different stages. Please do look at this for per capita numbers www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Such bigoted comments on here. Is it jealousy, are we really great after all