To be shocked at how normal everything looks in New Zealand?

[GoldenLabbie]

Huge crowds seeing the New Year. No masks, no social distancing. You wouldn’t know that the rest of the world is in the grip of a pandemic looking at those scenes. How did we manage to get it so wrong but they got it so right? When you look at that you realise how the rest have screwed up so badly don’t you? I wonder what they make of all?

"Of course people have. Being half Aus I know it well, Melbourne particularly. Half life here and there. I still think you can’t compare. Probably think it more because I know both having grown up there"

I can compare them. I'm an expat Spaniard living in Sydney, born and grown in Madrid in an apartment like most madrilenos. Sydney like Auckland is full of apartment buildings with the same density risk of the virus spreading as to any other city in the UK. We are not isolated, we travel by public transport, we import goods, we send our kids to schools, we go shopping....we only need a virus cluster to spread like wild fire as it happened in Melbourne.

It's unconscionable to keep repeating the same British nationalistic crap on threads about New Zealand or Australia. You may not want to blame your government for the decisions it's taken, but the rest of the world certainly do.

'So get off your high horse and use your brain and think about why it's irrelevant to quote national population densities - you should be looking at cities, towns etc and those densities'

How funny and not at all unoriginal, get off my high horse and 'use my brain'! I've 'used my brain' thanks just my opinion is different to yours. I seem to recall we differed over your 'the end is nigh!' brexit non stop flapping threads and look how that turned out. Another thread perhaps

Oh but it is relevant because yes correct towns and cities are denser but if it is low overall its is of course possible to isolate effectively, quarantine etc and to nip it in the bud if any cases occur as they won't have spread to hundreds/thousands more in a 30mile radius. Obviously.

@EarringsandLipstick

Huge country, small population, significantly dispersed, and it's about a 3 hour flight to anyone.

Of course they can do it - no-one can get in or out.

It's not comparable with eg Europe

Nope, we could have had a shot at it.

@Alondra

"Of course people have. Being half Aus I know it well, Melbourne particularly. Half life here and there. I still think you can’t compare. Probably think it more because I know both having grown up there"

I can compare them. I'm an expat Spaniard living in Sydney, born and grown in Madrid in an apartment like most madrilenos. Sydney like Auckland is full of apartment buildings with the same density risk of the virus spreading as to any other city in the UK. We are not isolated, we travel by public transport, we import goods, we send our kids to schools, we go shopping....we only need a virus cluster to spread like wild fire as it happened in Melbourne.

It's unconscionable to keep repeating the same British nationalistic crap on threads about New Zealand or Australia. You may not want to blame your government for the decisions it's taken, but the rest of the world certainly do.

How many times It’s the ridiculous comparison we object to. Having lived in both it’s easier to see differences (Aus anyway since you brought it up)

Blame away if you feel good from that. Keep posting on this forum to tell us how you feel great

You still wrong about the nationalism. We are in a bad situation but comparison to NZ is ridiculous. As we have said but you refuse to budge or open your ears.

'It's unconscionable to keep repeating the same British nationalistic crap on threads about New Zealand or Australia. You may not want to blame your government for the decisions it's taken, but the rest of the world certainly do.'

'British nationalistic crap'.

Do you say the same to Italians, Spaniards and French or are you just bigoted about the British?

Alondra you can plot path of virus / timing and number of cases you had at lockdown if it helps you.

I agree that we have had it harder in fact Germany did better due to higher health investment

Whilst Johnson was telling everyone to enjoy their 5 days of xmas relaxation and ridiculing the opposition & medical doctors (BMJ) for suggesting otherwise, Merkel order a stricter lockdown over xmas/NY.

My criticism of BJ isn't so much in his decisions, its the timing of them, always too late.
There never appears to be any forward planning or thinking & as for his advisors, i have come to the conclusion they are there to support him.
It cannot be right that 2 world leading drugs companies can say there are no vaccine shortages (presumably they have manufacturing audit trails to back this up) yet the CMO sticks up for the govt and says there are shortages...... & when India has 50m doses already.

Jasjas I agree with you on Christmas it irritated me a lot and I thought it the wrong decision

There are plenty of things as above and I’ll probably agree with most. Just not that we should keep comparing NZ and Aus

@Alondra

Absolutely.

People who bang on about the hub seem to lack any comprehension of other countries and conveniently forget other countries who have managed covid infinitely better, of which there are many.

It's all a huge excuse and plays right into the government's hands. You can tell how crap BJ is from his press conferences. He often makes out that things will get back to normal providing we all do as we're told, knowing full well that it's complete fantasy. Then when things don't improve he can claim that it's not the government but that we haven't quite done enough

Do you say the same to Italians, Spaniards and French or are you just bigoted about the British?

Don't live in these countries and the thread is about NZ and our decision making compared to theirs.
Plenty of EU nations have done a lot better than UK.

To U.K.

Oh but it is relevant because yes correct towns and cities are denser but if it is low overall its is of course possible to isolate effectively, quarantine etc and to nip it in the bud if any cases occur as they won't have spread to hundreds/thousands more in a 30mile radius. Obviously

And yet we live in places in the UK which are low density - such as North Yorkshire, Cumbria, Cornwall, parts of Scotland - places that are also easy to isolate, quarantine, nip in the bud etc.

But we still have cases going up in those areas.

[quote whiterabbitsweets]@Alondra

Absolutely.

People who bang on about the hub seem to lack any comprehension of other countries and conveniently forget other countries who have managed covid infinitely better, of which there are many.

It's all a huge excuse and plays right into the government's hands. You can tell how crap BJ is from his press conferences. He often makes out that things will get back to normal providing we all do as we're told, knowing full well that it's complete fantasy. Then when things don't improve he can claim that it's not the government but that we haven't quite done enough [/quote]
You don’t think we are an international hub?

Is it not true then

I don’t think Johnson can get away from his need to channel Churchill. “Taking it on the chin”... “We are a nation who enjoy our freedoms”...

It was all nonsensical jingoism. And look where it’s gotten us. You don’t see Nicola Sturgeon spouting that crap.

Alondra you can plot path of virus / timing and number of cases you had at lockdown if it helps you.

I’m not alondra but that just emphasises that Boris acted too late. As notbad says he missed the first half dozen meetings cos his holiday

“We are a nation who enjoy our freedoms”...

Channelling the US and trump.

You don’t think we are an international hub?

Flights dropped to just 10% on normal, we v. quickly stopped becoming a hub..... but still allowed people to come and go on the flights that did come in/out, with little or no checking.

100s of 000s of people flew in and out of UK airports during lockdown, no checks.
Even just before xmas, people were flying off to go skiing, remember the 200 uk skiers who ignored quarantine in Verbier? or on NYE, UK party goers attending a rave in Brittany?

100s of 000s of people flew in and out of UK airports during lockdown, no checks.
Even just before xmas, people were flying off to go skiing, remember the 200 uk skiers who ignored quarantine in Verbier? or on NYE, UK party goers attending a rave in Brittany?

All while people were encouraged to “stay home”. It’s farcical enforcing a local lockdown with freely open borders and no testing or quarantine of travellers.

@jasjas1973

You don’t think we are an international hub?

Flights dropped to just 10% on normal, we v. quickly stopped becoming a hub..... but still allowed people to come and go on the flights that did come in/out, with little or no checking.

100s of 000s of people flew in and out of UK airports during lockdown, no checks.
Even just before xmas, people were flying off to go skiing, remember the 200 uk skiers who ignored quarantine in Verbier? or on NYE, UK party goers attending a rave in Brittany?

It’s important for the very beginning of the pandemic. The timing and spread right at start. Obviously those countries will be hit harder via the cities - London / NYC high levels of tourism daily, attractive to Chinese tourists

It means NZ could lock down late March with very few cases.

People who bang on about it not being relevant are so blindly biased they can’t think objectively (not you JasJas more pp)

Cornwall T1 low infections.... johnson introduces T3 and 4 areas but allows unrestricted travel to Cornwall.... just a guideline not too....now we are T3.
Why didn't he do what France did and have a 100km (or less in the much smaller UK) travel restriction?
Gross incompetence.

jasjas

Agree very much with most of your last post but FWIW:

remember the 200 uk skiers who ignored quarantine in Verbier?

As I mentioned upthread it looks like that story was "fake news", but the MSM in the UK are not going to be issuing a clarification anytime soon.

And plenty of other countries are international hubs. And have millions of arrivals. But how many countries have completely unregulated arrivals?

But like I said earlier, the horse has well and truly bolted in the UK. The virus is so rife in the community now that the best option is other countries prevent people from the UK travelling to their countries without quarantine. That’s how the UK is viewed by the rest of the world.

Yep, Marsha, timing is everything, NZ locked down ahead of the evidence, we waited until the evidence was overwhelming.

I don't believe we could ever have had eradication but we could have had far lower infections/deaths in first wave.

The new more contagious strain is a different matter, i don't know how we deal with that now... another national LD seems very likely given the NHS crisis, with strict enforcement.

That’s how the UK is viewed by the rest of the world

That's one of the other things about being an island.
Easy to cut yourself off.
Easy to be cut off.

Do you say the same to Italians, Spaniards and French or are you just bigoted about the British

I'm a Spaniard and fully recognise the mistakes the Spanish government have made. Starting with opening borders too soon because its economy was/is too dependent on mass tourism. Unlike the British government they've acknowledge the mistakes and have tried to amend the situation, all school kids have to wear masks and classrooms have to be fully ventilated even if it means kids wearing coats and scarves in classrooms. By no means Spain is doing well, but considering where we were in February last year, the government is managing the virus much better than the UK.

If you actually had a thread like this in Spain, it will be full 99% of people saying the response of the Spanish government was/is crap. No nationalistic crap justifications at all specially compared to NZ and Australia.

It's what makes the UK special. Even when the stats and facts are in your face, the British keep reaching for justifications. When is not demographics it's "international hubs", or comparing yourselves with the hardest hit countries in the first wave.

Anything but blaming your government. Incredible.