To be shocked at how normal everything looks in New Zealand?

[GoldenLabbie]

Huge crowds seeing the New Year. No masks, no social distancing. You wouldn’t know that the rest of the world is in the grip of a pandemic looking at those scenes. How did we manage to get it so wrong but they got it so right? When you look at that you realise how the rest have screwed up so badly don’t you? I wonder what they make of all?

Another not often mentioned fact is that the US has lower death rates per million than the UK, doesn't it - again would be very interesting to know why

The US is not doing badly at all, considering the wildly different tactics taken by various states.

Nursing home policy was a disaster that killed so many in the East Coast (NYC in particular) states. But restricted to the very ill and elderly. In New Jersey, over half of deaths have been those in nursing homes. Similar figures in other East Coast states as well.

The weirdest thing with the whole tragic situation is it has given rise to xenophobia, the UK have fucked up (allegedly) all the lolz! all tied in with Brexit, 'British arrogance', Tory hating. I find it all quite sickening.

Looking at Scotland, Wales and Ni who are of course devolved yet are in the same if not sadly a worst situation, we would be in the same boat whoever was in charge.

The population density in New Zealand is 18 per Km2!
^The population density in the UK is 275 per Km2*

Have you ever been to New Zealand?

Parts of it are like London or Birmingham with densely populated cities.
Parts of it are like North Yorkshire, with spread out small towns
Parts of it are like North Scotland with very few people living there.

Which makes general population densities irrelevant.

@Alondra

U.K. would not have been able to close borders, for the same reasons that Brexit has been so complicated. The land border with ROI.

Obviously some of you are prepared to think the UK government could do no wrong despite the evidence - over 50,000 more cases each day, 500+ dying daily and schools closing down again.

I prefer the governments in NZ and Australia. Stats and facts back them up, not nationalistic justifications.

And again. It’s not nationalistic to look at timing and virus reality. It’s not about ‘doing no wrong’.

If you can’t argue your point on that score then you’re not looking at it rationally or scientifically.

U.K. would not have been able to close borders, for the same reasons that Brexit has been so complicated. The land border with ROI.

And this attitude is why things will remain shit for you for months to come. Think about the first lockdown in the U.K. - hospitals not offering “non-essential” services, schools closed, businesses lost, exams disrupted, people quibbling about their exercise times on MN and those “shielding” going months without human touch.

Yet - borders were (and still are) wide open, anyone could come into the U.K. from anywhere without airport checks and just re enter the community. No compulsory quarantine or testing at all. More than sufficient to maintain community spread.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

The weirdest thing with the whole tragic situation is it has given rise to xenophobia, the UK have fucked up (allegedly) all the lolz! all tied in with Brexit, 'British arrogance', Tory hating. I find it all quite sickening.

Looking at Scotland, Wales and Ni who are of course devolved yet are in the same if not sadly a worst situation, we would be in the same boat whoever was in charge.

I know we’re not the only ones in this situation. We attract a lot of people commenting on us

If people could post based on virus variable / timing / location not thinking if who they hate politically it’d be a better discussion

Because Johnson has made the Pandemic a political issue, it has become one.
He has never sought any cooperation with the devolved govt's nor with the opposition.
Never seeked advice from other experts not on SAGE, such as Prof Devi Sridhar, who assists Surgeon.
They have ideologically used the private sector, regardless of expertise, blanked local authorities, followed advice from political appointees & given money and positions of power to their supporters and family members.

I don't hate anyone or party but the way the tories have funded public services over many govts, not just last 10 years, has made the pandemic here much worse.

It's awful that they get normality without the pressure to be vaccinated (who knows the effectiveness of the vaccines in reality).
Yet we're being told that the only way out of this is a vaccine.
If NZ don't need a vaccine why should we? It's the same virus right?

'Which makes general population densities irrelevant.'

Yes course it does. Jesus.

Population densities irrelevant in an infectious disease . It is the very naure of how they spread.

Basically the reason this wasn’t possible was because the UK and Heathrow is laughably shit. That’s nothing to be proud of

You and many other posters mistakenly think I’m proud of the UK or something (I’m not even British). I’m just pointing out the absolute ridiculousness of comparing the UK and New Zealand, as if any major country of travel and commerce could do what NZ has done. Spoiler: they can’t.

New Zealand IS an international hub! Flights transit through Auckland on their way to Australia and the whole of the South Pacific!

😂😂😂🤣🥲

Sorry, but

😂😂😂🤣

Decisions made 9 months ago have cost lives needlessly

Easy to say ‘you should have locked down and enacted travel bans’ when all the experts were against it and the WHO is still very reluctant to recommend them.

Only in a complete fantasy world is the USA “not doing badly” and the UK would be in the same boat whoever had been in charge. I find that quite sad overall. The expectations of government in the UK have now dropped so low that thousands of people dying unnecessarily, the GDP falling by 9.6% and being comparable to other fucked up countries is seen as a reasonably good outcome overall.

'Because Johnson has made the Pandemic a political issue, it has become one. He has never sought any cooperation with the devolved govt's nor with the opposition.'

Well that's just not true is it. Cobra meetings, Sunak's uk wide financial support, cmo's working closely with their counterparts, health secretary ditto. If anyone has made it a political issue, an opportunity even then it is without a doubt Nicola with her daily party political broadcasts.

Have you ever been to New Zealand?

It always amazes me how many people in the UK talk about Australia and NZ like the know the countries quite well. They've seen a few programs on tv, read a few articles on the net and have a cousin who emigrated. Yet, they know everything about the countries.

They of course miss...

The majority of population in both countries are in Sydney, Melbourne, Auckland, and the density is similar to many in the UK.

But hey, lets keep talking about density instead of government decisions the British have voted in.

You and many other posters mistakenly think I’m proud of the UK or something (I’m not even British). I’m just pointing out the absolute ridiculousness of comparing the UK and New Zealand, as if any major country of travel and commerce could do what NZ has done. Spoiler: they can’t.

This pretty much sums it up. It’s not about nationalism but ridiculous comparisons

Jasjas I agree that we have had it harder in fact Germany did better due to higher health investment. I don’t disagree with all this. I just have seen so many NZ v U.K. threads / posts and I’d like people to consider timing and hub when talking about islands

@MangoFeverDream

Basically the reason this wasn’t possible was because the UK and Heathrow is laughably shit. That’s nothing to be proud of

You and many other posters mistakenly think I’m proud of the UK or something (I’m not even British). I’m just pointing out the absolute ridiculousness of comparing the UK and New Zealand, as if any major country of travel and commerce could do what NZ has done. Spoiler: they can’t.

New Zealand IS an international hub! Flights transit through Auckland on their way to Australia and the whole of the South Pacific!

😂😂😂🤣🥲

Sorry, but

😂😂😂🤣

Decisions made 9 months ago have cost lives needlessly

Easy to say ‘you should have locked down and enacted travel bans’ when all the experts were against it and the WHO is still very reluctant to recommend them.

It’s incredibly disrespectful to NZ to have no understanding of how busy Auckland airport is and how it serves the region. You give the impression you think NZ and Auckland is just a quiet little backwater.

And I haven’t said the UK should have enacted travel bans, I’ve said they should have, months ago, enacted measures to stop Covid positive people from just walking in while symptomatic and infecting people while at the same time telling UK residents to not walk around infecting people.

@Alondra

Have you ever been to New Zealand?

It always amazes me how many people in the UK talk about Australia and NZ like the know the countries quite well. They've seen a few programs on tv, read a few articles on the net and have a cousin who emigrated. Yet, they know everything about the countries.

They of course miss...

The majority of population in both countries are in Sydney, Melbourne, Auckland, and the density is similar to many in the UK.

But hey, lets keep talking about density instead of government decisions the British have voted in.

Of course people have. Being half Aus I know it well, Melbourne particularly. Half life here and there. I still think you can’t compare. Probably think it more because I know both having grown up there

Re Mass testing of arrivals and:

If Chiangi Airport could manage, one of the busiest in the world so could everyone else.

Changi is about #20 in terms of passengers handled, well below the likes of London, L.A. Frankfurt, Paris CDG.

FWIW as I recall things the only form of mass testing being done at Changi in early Feb was the questionable "walk past the IR camera as you leave the aircraft test" which is has been widespread in the far east for some time...

As I recall it Singapore then started escalating restrictions on foreign entry from late Feb through March, when they pretty much stopped EuropeanAustralian flights from transiting. I don't think there was mass testing as in biological testing, even at that point ( but happy to be corrected).

200 British Holiday makers unable to do without their Skiing Trip, during a Pandemic, In Verbier, told to isolate when positive case found, trying to sneak out in the middle of the night to avoid quarantine. .says it all.

@NotBadConsidering... I disagree. We are an island. We could have isolated more quickly. We didn’t because of decisions taken by this Govt. Cheltenham Races/sporting events... travellers coming from abroad “amazed” there were no basic testing/tracking/quarantine rules... Our “world besting Dido Harding Track and Trace” which was shite... The nursing home scandal (just sending untested elderly patients back to the community to release hospital beds)... Nightingale (no one to “man” them) standing empty...ignoring SAGE shutdown in September this year or the NHS will be totally overwhelmed by Christmas???

I don’t think this Govt. give a shit about us. How many died. How many will die. It’s all about saving the NHS and let’s face it, the NHS was fucked. Y the Tories ^long’ before COVID-19.

Population densities irrelevant in an infectious disease . It is the very naure of how they spread

Except - as you may not be aware, you have posted the density of the whole nation - which is meaningless because there is a lot of empty or very low density areas.

When you look at the large cities - such as Auckland, it has a much higher density than the one you quoted for New Zealand, it has areas of high density housing, poor living conditions, people who are more susceptble to disease.

And the country has 25 deaths,

So get off your high horse and use your brain and think about why it's irrelevant to quote national population densities - you should be looking at cities, towns etc and those densities,

Same for Australia - a low population density as whole, but most people live in or near the big cities.

@Ineke

200 British Holiday makers unable to do without their Skiing Trip, during a Pandemic, In Verbier, told to isolate when positive case found, trying to sneak out in the middle of the night to avoid quarantine. .says it all.

www.wheretoskiandsnowboard.com/blogs/what-really-happened-in-verbier/

'This pretty much sums it up. It’s not about nationalism but ridiculous comparisons'

Exactly!

I'm not a raging patriot or hardline Tory, for eg I vote for the best of a bad bunch usually. I am as pissed off as the next person at the new variant, schools closed etc. It is just utterly staggering to gloat about 'legend' Jacinda running a very small country.

Going forward as a pp said I hope the WHO manages to instruct all countries to adopt a one system approach to recording deaths. Digital even! Imagine that, no 'higher rate because of the weekend' but an actual daily accurate death rate of those dying within 28 days of a positive test.

[quote EleanorRigbyWasReal]@NotBadConsidering... I disagree. We are an island. We could have isolated more quickly. We didn’t because of decisions taken by this Govt. Cheltenham Races/sporting events... travellers coming from abroad “amazed” there were no basic testing/tracking/quarantine rules... Our “world besting Dido Harding Track and Trace” which was shite... The nursing home scandal (just sending untested elderly patients back to the community to release hospital beds)... Nightingale (no one to “man” them) standing empty...ignoring SAGE shutdown in September this year or the NHS will be totally overwhelmed by Christmas???

I don’t think this Govt. give a shit about us. How many died. How many will die. It’s all about saving the NHS and let’s face it, the NHS was fucked. Y the Tories ^long’ before COVID-19.[/quote]
We are in agreement here.

It always amazes me how many people in the UK talk about Australia and NZ like the know the countries quite well. They've seen a few programs on tv, read a few articles on the net and have a cousin who emigrated. Yet, they know everything about the countries

I've travelled around Australia, lived in Melbourne, Sydney and in Auckland. And travelled around New Zealand as well.

I am very impressed by how well these countries are doing - especially as they do have large cities with populations that do live closely.

@NotBadConsidering 👍