To be shocked at how normal everything looks in New Zealand?

[GoldenLabbie]

Huge crowds seeing the New Year. No masks, no social distancing. You wouldn’t know that the rest of the world is in the grip of a pandemic looking at those scenes. How did we manage to get it so wrong but they got it so right? When you look at that you realise how the rest have screwed up so badly don’t you? I wonder what they make of all?

'Add in an obese and unhealthy population' yes and poor compliance.

Would we have had to introduce food rationing if we'd stopped accompanied freight (even if there were no actual shortages, panic buying would presumably have been a problem)? I think just before Christmas the government mentioned 20% of freight through Dover is accompanied. Given where we are now, that might have been worth it - but I suppose one problem would have been that we were the only country in the world doing it (I think!), so much harder politically.

But what would have been the effect on manufacturing supplies, I wonder - given just in time manufacturing, that might have been fairly significant.
Another not often mentioned fact is that the US has lower death rates per million than the UK, doesn't it - again would be very interesting to know why.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

The population density in New Zealand is 18 per Km2!! The population density in the UK is 275 per Km2.

Johnson's public school education is irrelevant, they have acted on the same advice any lesder would have.

For the love of God won't some of you do some research, The UK has similar infection rates (per capita) to most European (like for like) countries. They arent all run by 'narcissists' with bad hairdos and a public school education i don't think.

This has been discussed. Seoul has a population density 3 times higher than London. So has other places like Tokyo. The population of Auckland is half of London but hasn’t had half the cases.

And the UK infection rate per capita has been similar but has had 25000 more deaths than Spain, 10,000 more than France, and 35000 more than Germany.

By no measure has the UK done well.

*population density of Auckland

It’s not though. What an isolated country of 4 million people do is very different than what a very populous country like the UK does. It’s also a huge international travel and business hub

But in a pandemic, we are no longer a international travel hub....

Japan has banned all foreign nationals from entry until end of january.

Think about when virus hit U.K.

When your government made the decision to go for herd immunity instead of looking at lockdowns in Italy and Spain.

Your goverment decision The opposite to NZ and Australia.

@Alondra

Think about when virus hit U.K.

When your government made the decision to go for herd immunity instead of looking at lockdowns in Italy and Spain.

Your goverment decision The opposite to NZ and Australia.

We had a lockdown just as Italy and Spain did with similar outcomes.

It just shows the opposite of your point. Italy, Spain, France, U.K., Belgium have faired about the same. The policy isn’t here immunity any more than there’s is. It’s control virus to point of healthcare system coping. All of them.

You’ve been sucked in with some press on here immunity.

Herd

UK could have done the same in a larger scale.

U.K. would not have been able to close borders, for the same reasons that Brexit has been so complicated. The land border with ROI.

Laughing as share frustration - after so many of these threads I’d hope people would actually read up on such a repeated topic

Yes also laughing..... at the inability of tory supporters to look at hospitalisations, CH deaths, death rates and excess deaths... the UK has been shockingly bad.
As a PP said, the UK has a higher per capita death rate than even Trumps USA.
The highest excess death rate in europe and top ten overall in the world.

But on top of all of that, we ve a schools disaster and now a vaccine roll out fuck up.

We had a lockdown just as Italy and Spain did with similar outcomes

You certainly not the same lockdown as Italy and Spain or same outcomes.

You are now in a much worse position than Italy and specially Spain. I'm not going to waste time giving you stats, you can google them.

'Laughing as share frustration - after so many of these threads I’d hope people would actually read up on such a repeated topic.'

I know! We all know It's true for example that the virus affects some ethnic groups far worse than others. That socio economic effects have increased rates etc with density being the biggest factor. Prime example London and Cornwall. I also get exasperated by some of the shite compliance here and as said repeatedly I'm pleased nz had a lovely new year. But there are just so any variables, the 'we went hard cos Jacinda is a ledge' mentality is just so . It's far too simplistic. Maybe NZ main stream media feed them more guff than ours feed us, who knows.

@jasjas1973

Laughing as share frustration - after so many of these threads I’d hope people would actually read up on such a repeated topic

Yes also laughing..... at the inability of tory supporters to look at hospitalisations, CH deaths, death rates and excess deaths... the UK has been shockingly bad.
As a PP said, the UK has a higher per capita death rate than even Trumps USA.
The highest excess death rate in europe and top ten overall in the world.

But on top of all of that, we ve a schools disaster and now a vaccine roll out fuck up.

I’m not approaching from political standpoint. And I would love it if others did the same.

Of course we are in a sure situation I’m aware. But NZ v Aus threads. It’s ridiculous to compare.

If people could post based on virus variable / timing / location not thinking if who they hate politically it’d be a better discussion.

From when airports in the far east starting doing it

Again, the ‘Far East’ is not a monolith. Tokyo certainly wasn’t doing this.

If Chiangi Airport could manage, one of the busiest in the world so could everyone else

Lmao no. Changi is merely the best airport in the world. Heathrow is a dump that can’t even manage to open a new terminal 😂😂😂

And they didn’t have the testing capacity because they didn’t order it. Like they were advised to

Well, that’s honestly a shame. But how is this relevant to NZ though? Not an international hub.

But this advice has proved to be wrong

Has it though? The WHO still doesn’t really recommend travel bans/restrictions actually. I believe a lot of their research points to it being counterproductive.

I make no judgement on that btw. Just stating their position.

It’s not a “politically popular” decision

Oh, but I think it is, if Mumsnet is anything to go by

Allowing arrivals to freely roam unregulated in a country will lead to spread that can’t be traced or contained

At this point, the spread is within borders for most countries. So NZ-esque quarantine protocols are unnecessary.

*They key to being a leader is knowing which advice to follow and which to ignore, and Johnson keeps getting it wrong where other leaders like Ardern have succeeded.

Sure = Dire

I’m a floating voter anyway with no strong allegiance to either party. Also a dual passport holder I know Aus well! Half here, half life there. I would like discussion based on science.

"They key to being a leader is knowing which advice to follow and which to ignore,"

Did JA go against her advisers' advice? I wasn't following it closely, but that wasn't the impression I got at the time. Interestingly one of the deputy CMOs in the UK did say that WHO advice on testing wasn't appropriate once the virus was endemic - so we haven't followed all WHO advice that closely. For a while it was accepted that that was wrong (about testing) - but as it turns out, track and trace has not solved the problem. I wonder now if it ever could have - it did seem to in South Korea though? Again, is it the speed of the results that is key?

'As a PP said, the UK has a higher per capita death rate than even Trumps USA.'

1074 usa 1089 UK. About the same sadly. Similar to France Italy and Spain.

www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

@merrymouse

UK could have done the same in a larger scale.

U.K. would not have been able to close borders, for the same reasons that Brexit has been so complicated. The land border with ROI.

It wouldn’t have been difficult:

“We are announcing that all arrivals from mainland Europe (ROI exempt) will be required to be tested* and self isolate for 14 days to allow contact tracing^ from the 27th of March.”

It’s what plenty of other countries did.

*except we didn’t listen to our own experts and don’t have anywhere near enough tests.

^and we have badly underfunded public health so don’t have the resources to do this.

These are the real reasons. The proper management required investment and resources, and Johnson and his government decided it wasn’t worth the money. He decided the lives weren’t worth the money. Whereas other leaders, like Ardern decided the opposite.

The comparison with NZ remains valid.

@jasjas1973

Only on the ridiculousness of comparing the UK and NZ

On decisions made & outcomes perhaps, on leadership, i think comparison is valid.
JA has form on making and saying the right things at the right time and carrying her country with her.

I said many pages ago, the UK should compare itself to the countries like Japan, Germany (to some extent) SE Asian countries.

Unfortunately, the UK went into this pandemic after 10 years of tory austerity, poor stocks of PPE, a underfunded and understaffed NHS.

Add in an obese and unhealthy population, an inexperienced govt, fixated with Brexit, c/w with a populist leader and disaster was perhaps the only outcome.

Absolutely. Couldn't agree more.

At this point, the spread is within borders for most countries. So NZ-esque quarantine protocols are unnecessary.

But most of Australia’s current community spread has originated from overseas travel.
Border protocols are necessary. If it wasn’t for travellers and breakdown in proceduresin those supervising them (like in Victoria) Australia would have eradicated Covid as well. As long as their are still travellers coming home there’ll always be ongoing risk.

U.K. would not have been able to close borders, for the same reasons that Brexit has been so complicated. The land border with ROI.

Obviously some of you are prepared to think the UK government could do no wrong despite the evidence - over 50,000 more cases each day, 500+ dying daily and schools closing down again.

I prefer the governments in NZ and Australia. Stats and facts back them up, not nationalistic justifications.

there

How can anyone effectively compare death rates in other countries, when the recording mechanism isn't universal?

So we all know that in the UK, deaths are attributed to Covid if someone dies within 28 days of a positive test. Does anyone know what the criteria is in other countries?

Comparing the average age of Covid deaths would be useful too, along with percentage of hospitalisations in all covid sufferers.

Lmao no. Changi is merely the best airport in the world. Heathrow is a dump that can’t even manage to open a new terminal 😂😂😂

Basically the reason this wasn’t possible was because the UK and Heathrow is laughably shit. That’s nothing to be proud of.

Well, that’s honestly a shame. But how is this relevant to NZ though? Not an international hub

New Zealand IS an international hub! Flights transit through Auckland on their way to Australia and the whole of the South Pacific!

Oh, but I think it is, if Mumsnet is anything to go by

But it hasn’t been universally politically in the countries that do it, but it’s accepted as necessary.

At this point, the spread is within borders for most countries. So NZ-esque quarantine protocols are unnecessary.

Yes, that’s the whole point of the entire thread. Decisions made 9 months ago have cost lives needlessly. The horse has well and truly bolted on border quarantine rules.

"You are now in a much worse position than Italy and specially Spain. I'm not going to waste time giving you stats, you can google them."

Deaths per million are not very different from UK I think in Italy and Spain. France and Germany have done better though.
Thanks to the pp with the numbers for the US - that has changed recently I think as previously I think it was significantly lower than the UK - interesting.
I did see some numbers suggesting UK had had one of the highest hits to GDP but can't remember where!