To be shocked at how normal everything looks in New Zealand?

[GoldenLabbie]

Huge crowds seeing the New Year. No masks, no social distancing. You wouldn’t know that the rest of the world is in the grip of a pandemic looking at those scenes. How did we manage to get it so wrong but they got it so right? When you look at that you realise how the rest have screwed up so badly don’t you? I wonder what they make of all?

@MarshaBradyo - so you think I am the only person on this thread who disagrees with you? The OP asked how NZ got it so right and the UK got it so wrong - we are simply trying to answer that question. If you are happy with your government's response to the pandemic then good for you, but I fear you are in the minority.

Japan did have a different approach, but they definitely did not do “near fuck all”

No, the government did near fuck all.

Japan shut schools for months and even when they eventually opened the kids only got to go some days and not others to limit number

Months overstates it. IIRC it was from February to early May, but keep in mind that their school year ends in March and begins in mid-April. So they reopened not long after the beginning of the school year.

They also hospitalized everyone who tested positive for covid, so it wasn’t able to spread within households

Lmao, they had one of the lowest testing rates globally. You could only get tested if you had severe symptoms, like pneumonia, or was in contact with a confirmed case.

I think they also banned the type of mass gatherings that lead to super spreader events

Sporting events came back with fan attendance by July ....

Frankly, I’d love to implement Japan’s policies globally. Hey, it worked there ....

If Boris Johnson had been in charge of New Zealand they would have the highest death rate per capita. Thousands would have died in south Auckland. If Jacinda Ardern had been in charge of the UK, thousands of lives would have been saved.

What NZ did is irrelevant here

It's not irrelevant by a long shot. Starting by the fact that NZ had a pandemic plan long before it hit worldwide. They've always known that as a small country with limited health resources, they needed to act fast. And they did. That's a political decision from the only people that can follow medical advice - a government.

The south continent had a 4-6 weeks window to make difficult decisions knowing what was happening in China and Europe. A window break that countries like Italy and Spain didn't have in February last year. The UK had a 2-3 window break but instead of locking borders, decided to go with the herd immunity. I'm a Spaniard who thought your government was nuts when Madrid was in lockdown and your government put no restrictions to an Atletic Madrid v Liverpool. This was a political decision and the consequences have hot stopped since.

For a country with a government that keeps talking about sovereignty, the decisions they've made are shit.

[quote eaglejulesk]@MarshaBradyo - so you think I am the only person on this thread who disagrees with you? The OP asked how NZ got it so right and the UK got it so wrong - we are simply trying to answer that question. If you are happy with your government's response to the pandemic then good for you, but I fear you are in the minority.[/quote]
Nope no one has shown we could have done the same.

All the wah we are an island rubbish stuff has stopped.

I don’t care if you think this thread is about doing badly. It’s about comparing NZ and U.K. as per usual

The title should be why can’t we be at home like Germany this NYE

Not as emotive or much of an excuse to give a good kick from afar

A sensible woman in charge.

*Nope no one has shown we could have done the same.

All the wah we are an island rubbish stuff has stopped.*

The U.K. couldn’t have eradicated, too many cases.

But this from notbad is true.
If Boris Johnson had been in charge of New Zealand they would have the highest death rate per capita. Thousands would have died in south Auckland. If Jacinda Ardern had been in charge of the UK, thousands of lives would have been saved.

South Aucklanders as a population are extremely high risk for covid mortality. Jacinda’s leadership saved many lives. “Herd immunity” would have been risky for the Maori and Pacific Island people in that area.

@NotBadConsidering

If Boris Johnson had been in charge of New Zealand they would have the highest death rate per capita. Thousands would have died in south Auckland. If Jacinda Ardern had been in charge of the UK, thousands of lives would have been saved.

Yes quite. I don't know if the UK would have had exactly the same NYE as NZ, most likely not, but I bet we would currently be in tier 1 rather than discussing national school closures and ferrying the critically ill across the country

I wouldn’t choose Adern

But I would Merkel

A better fit with similar population size and location issues

And inevitable spread to other Pacific Island countries. Devastating. Especially as Samoa mourns those lost to measles not that long ago.

She’s a brave, smart woman and deserves her accolades.

He just didn’t do it when it was needed in regards to travel rules if you think the WHO wasn’t advising at the time. Even though other countries were doing what they thought was right

The WHO was still saying travel bans were counterproductive into March. China was putting immense pressure on countries to not close their borders.

The UK obviously was happy to go along with those recommendations, which was endorsed by all the experts at the time.

Taiwan/USA obviously wanted to stick it to China, but it served Taiwan well and they shut down travel very early because they rightly do not trust China.

"letting people into the country from all around the world with no checking, no quarantine is just foolhardy. Anyone with half a brain could surely see that."

Catching up from last night! The interesting thing is I don't think Sage has ever recommended NZ/Aus style closing of the borders. I seem to remember they were not particularly enthusiastic when quarantine was finally introduced in the summer. I don't think the WHO has recommended it either. Yet Sage were certainly warning of second waves, and presumably everyone knows about the possibility of mutation!

It may be the freight issue - there's no point in restricting other incomers much if you have to have a lot of road freight? Though the Dover testing experience was interesting - very few positive tests on those lorry drivers, so maybe they are not much at risk of passing on infection as they don't have much social contact. I realise lateral flow has more false negatives than PCR.

Merkel btw recognised and talked about reaching 70% of population. Same as here but with less furore. Deaths have been lower but still second wave and lockdown.

@MarshaBradyo - you are beginning to sound deranged, and I'm getting bored. Face facts: NZ has done something the UK didn't have a hope of doing under its current government. Don't tell me what the title should be - I didn't write the OP and the person who did doesn't appear to be at all interested in comparisons between the UK and Germany.

Maybe the difference is more rational and scientific approach. Here we have press whipping people up about herd immunity. There it’s seen as a scientific fact. (Without vaccine)

Go away then Eagle don’t read it.

These threads are always NZ and it’s the same posters going on and on. Months of the same. It’s not relevant.

Those who think it is the same people 'going on and on', can't you think of something better to do then?

Alondra

The point is that NZ can do a total travel ban and it’s not a big deal. It’s an isolated island without an international hub and a very small population.

The WHO did not recommend travel bans until at least mid-March.

There’s no way a major economy and travel hub could have cut itself off from the rest of the world without some justification for it, which WHO would not have provided.

These threads come up every few weeks.

The island comparison is so tired.

At least people have finally admitted no we couldn’t have done the same.

Any way Mango is posting sensibly on it hopefully people will finally get it.

@MangoFeverDream

He just didn’t do it when it was needed in regards to travel rules if you think the WHO wasn’t advising at the time. Even though other countries were doing what they thought was right

The WHO was still saying travel bans were counterproductive into March. China was putting immense pressure on countries to not close their borders.

The UK obviously was happy to go along with those recommendations, which was endorsed by all the experts at the time.

Taiwan/USA obviously wanted to stick it to China, but it served Taiwan well and they shut down travel very early because they rightly do not trust China.

Well that’s my point. He didn’t have the backbone to go against this expert advice, even though other countries were, but he also didn’t have the backbone to follow the expert advice from his own experts at Sage meetings and Cobra meetings he didn’t attend.

You can’t commend Johnson for going along with the expert advice, when it’s the one time he should have done his own thing, as opposed to all the other times he’s done his own thing and ignored experts.

In fact, it’s not really clear that the WHO ever did recommend travel bans, a lot of their body of research on infectious disease actually argues against it.

And inevitable spread to other Pacific Island countries. Devastating. Especially as Samoa mourns those lost to measles not that long ago.

This is so important. NZ and Australia have the responsibility to stop the virus spreading to the Pacific Islands and indigenous peoples. Otherwise the virus will masacre the population.

NOT ONE Australian indigenous person has been affected by the virus and the Pacific Islands have been spared as well. Whoever thinks there were no political decisions taking built a protective wall around them, are very naive.

There’s no way a major economy and travel hub could have cut itself off from the rest of the world without some justification for it, which WHO would not have provided.

It could have had strict quarantine rules, testing of arrivals, isolation of arrivals, contact tracing of arrivals, all justified by common sense and UK expert advice.

You can’t commend Johnson for going along with the expert advice, when it’s the one time he should have done his own thing, as opposed to all the other times he’s done his own thing and ignored experts

I do not comment on Johnson’s performance. Only on the ridiculousness of comparing the UK and NZ.