To be shocked at how normal everything looks in New Zealand?

[GoldenLabbie]

Huge crowds seeing the New Year. No masks, no social distancing. You wouldn’t know that the rest of the world is in the grip of a pandemic looking at those scenes. How did we manage to get it so wrong but they got it so right? When you look at that you realise how the rest have screwed up so badly don’t you? I wonder what they make of all?

absurd = absolute

The whole op is about people enjoying NYE

If not that then best case probably Germany. Lower deaths but still in next wave.

@MarshaBradyo

NotBad Belgium? Isn’t that top? Your list is hugely varied and includes countries that implemented hugely draconian measures or had set up centralised systems after SARS - which we don’t have.

South Africa is struggling again too isn’t it

Spain is a closer mention. But Germany is probably better. If you want good strong leadership - and similar position

My list is all of countries with significantly fewer deaths. Belgium has had just under 20,000. South Africa 29,000. Even if they’re struggling now, at least they’ve had time to set up systems. Some will be effective some won’t but it’s bought time.

Regardless of the systems involved, they’re all more effective than “we’ve got this, let’s just go for a ride!”

Don’t forget the UK was warned of a SARS Like situation years ago.

Belgium have a very bad death rate.

I agree the UK has been utterly useless but Belgium is no better, nor SA.

NotBad

NZ has contributed to the world effort by helping to prevent the spread of covid to their neighbours in the pacific island by not allowing travel there even when they didn’t have covid. The islands would have made great holiday destinations for kiwis wanting to escape winter, but in all probability we would have exported covid to them during our last outbreak and that would have been catastrophic for them. NZ is also helping by securing vaccine doses for some of those islands as well who wouldn’t have the ability to source their own....
Not as important, but NZ is also providing a pretty covid-secure venue for film crews and sports teams wanting to work/play in relative safety.

@NotBadConsidering

Those Asian countries, on the doorstep of Wuhan, locked down properly and early and their citizens followed the rules. It isn’t rocket science as to why they’ve done so much better. The UK has done none of that and paid the price.

Those ‘Asian countries’ are not a monolith and implemented wildly different policies. Look at what Japan did (near fuck all) before spouting ill-informed bullshit.

It’s still a mystery why East Asia did well. Theories range from low obesity levels to mask wearing to previous immunity. Nothing conclusive yet though.

Full list here

www.statista.com/statistics/1111779/coronavirus-death-rate-europe-by-country/

If you look for Germany you’ll see it’s very low on list despite location and population level

Spain, Belgium and Italy all above U.K. anyway

Belgium might be at the top of deaths per population but look at this. They’re learning. They had a lot of deaths earlier on and they’ve learnt from their mistakes. Compare that to the UK graph.

Those ‘Asian countries’ are not a monolith and implemented wildly different policies. Look at what Japan did (near fuck all) before spouting ill-informed bullshit.

I never said they all did the same. But they all did something and they all did it early. Like I said before, it’s part of daily life to wear a mask in Tokyo even before Covid.

Either way it can’t be claimed that the UK outcome has been inevitable.

There is no way the UK could have done what NZ did. Cutting off a population of 4 million is doable — but 66 million?

And like it or not, the UK is an international hub, you can’t unilaterally cut yourselves off from the rest of the world.

Especially when this wasn’t WHO advice in the early days—do you really think Boris et al would have had the backbone to go against expert opinion?

Japan did have a different approach, but they definitely did not do “near fuck all”. Their approach was actually quite sensible given covid doesn’t spread like the flu does with its r value being quite predictive of the spread you can expect.
Japan shut schools for months and even when they eventually opened the kids only got to go some days and not others to limit number. They also hospitalized everyone who tested positive for covid, so it wasn’t able to spread within households. I think they also banned the type of mass gatherings that lead to super spreader events. So a very different approach from NZ, but reasonably effective given the way covid tends to spread easily within households and at large social events.

What day would you have locked down to achieve what NZ did?

Why do you keep banging on with this question? No-one is suggesting the UK could have achieved what NZ did, but they certainly could have done an awful lot better than they have done. Surely even you can see this?

do you really think Boris et al would have had the backbone to go against expert opinion?

A Google search of “Boris Johnson ignored experts” produces too many examples to link.

@FlyingByTheSeatof

They have a tiny population, tons of out door space and nowhere near as many daily travellers that we had. Making it so easy to close the borders etc compared to here.

They have a far more basic infrastructure than us

Far more basic infrastructure? Have you been to New Zealand?

You clearly have never been to Auckland in rush hour if you think they don't have daily travel in and out of the cities.

Outside the cities yes there is more space with generally low built individual houses (due to earthquakes) but the cities are just like any other in the world!

They also did amazingly well to have such low numbers in the beginning given a large portion of tourists are from China.

New Zealand did well because they went hard and fast, lock down not only borders but the population very quickly. They were being accused of being too stringent in the beginning......

Think they are the ones now sitting comfortably now whilst everyone else scrabbles

@eaglejulesk

What day would you have locked down to achieve what NZ did?

Why do you keep banging on with this question? No-one is suggesting the UK could have achieved what NZ did, but they certainly could have done an awful lot better than they have done. Surely even you can see this?

It is the whole point of the thread

Why couldn’t we do it. People say we’re an island too! Etc etc

Scroll back

So you acknowledge it wasn’t possible eithe
Good. Maybe we can finally stop silly NZ / U.K. comparison threads

What NZ did is irrelevant here

Eagle why do you keep banging on about NZ on here then?

If it was the usual old we are shit in U.K. thread I’d just let people moan away.

But it’s always NZ wah we’re an island too we could have done it

Nope it’s not going to get to cocktails at NYE

Best would have been a Germany.

@NotBadConsidering

do you really think Boris et al would have had the backbone to go against expert opinion?

A Google search of “Boris Johnson ignored experts” produces too many examples to link.

Lol look at that flak Trump got for the China travel ban and tell me he’d do that.

He absolutely wouldn’t.

Of course Johnson wouldn’t. Because it wouldn’t suit his agenda. He ignores or purports to follow experts whenever it suits him. It suited Trump to raise an anti-China point at that time.

A complete travel ban wouldn’t even had been needed at that time. Just proper screening in ports of arrival, adequate testing and isolation with enforcement of high risk arrivals. You know, common sense. But Johnson ignored his own experts. Australia did this before going to full quarantine laws. It made returning travellers self-isolate at home for 14 days in mid March.

What NZ did is irrelevant here

I do not think that is completely true.
Strong decisive leadership, having a plan (in NZ eradication) carrying the population with you, making the most of your geography and assets.
We on the other hand, had a PM who advocated Herd Immunity and some would say, has never really taken that off the table....which is why we are where we are now.

Look at the current debacles on vaccine roll-out and schools in england? and then come back and say NZ is not relevant?

But it’s ridiculous to suggest he wouldn’t have gone against expert opinion, because he has spent the majority of his prime ministership, if not life, doing exactly that. He just didn’t do it when it was needed in regards to travel rules if you think the WHO wasn’t advising at the time. Even though other countries were doing what they thought was right.

@jasjas1973

What NZ did is irrelevant here

I do not think that is completely true.
Strong decisive leadership, having a plan (in NZ eradication) carrying the population with you, making the most of your geography and assets.
We on the other hand, had a PM who advocated Herd Immunity and some would say, has never really taken that off the table....which is why we are where we are now.

Look at the current debacles on vaccine roll-out and schools in england? and then come back and say NZ is not relevant?

It’s not? NZ are not dealing with school issue or vaccine,

Why don’t you look at Germany instead?

www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/us-intelligence-reports-from-january-and-february-warned-about-a-likely-pandemic/2020/03/20/299d8cda-6ad5-11ea-b5f1-a5a804158597_story.html

Lol look at that flak Trump got for the China travel ban and tell me he’d do that.

Trump subsequently got more political flak for deliberately playing down concerns about the virus though. He was reportedly informed about its severity in Jan, was on tape with Bob Woodward in early Feb acknowledging its potential severity yet still downplayed it in public “15 cases going down to zero” etc

Much of the spread to the US at that stage was from Europe as well, he didn’t shut down travel from there.

Australia did this before going to full quarantine laws. It made returning travellers self-isolate at home for 14 days in mid March.

Which only needed to be police-enforced quarantine later on because people were doing runners 😀