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Original poster

To be shocked at how normal everything looks in New Zealand?

999 replies

GoldenLabbie · 31/12/2020 14:55

Huge crowds seeing the New Year. No masks, no social distancing. You wouldn’t know that the rest of the world is in the grip of a pandemic looking at those scenes. How did we manage to get it so wrong but they got it so right? When you look at that you realise how the rest have screwed up so badly don’t you? I wonder what they make of all?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
nolongersurprised · 02/01/2021 07:18

You haven't once compared uk to spain or italy or france who we have much more in common with
If you compare some they have done better than australia as well

donewithitalltodayandxmas

What do you mean by the sentence “if you compare some...”

Kiwi09 · 02/01/2021 07:18

Should not be happening...obviously!

Schehezarade · 02/01/2021 07:18

Yes, with hindsight a mistake.

inquietant · 02/01/2021 07:18

@MarshaBradyo I sense you think Johnson did all he could, but I just don't agree.

We can quibble that this country is bigger, and that one smaller, and this one has higher annual rainfall, and that one has more taxis, and this one is more coastal, and that one has more tourism....

Ultimately did the UK do well? No. Was that a political choice? In part, yes.

Schehezarade · 02/01/2021 07:21

I think everyone agrees that so far the UK has done v badly.
There is even talk now from scientists that this will not be the last pandemic - hopefully it will go better next time.
At least we are vaccinating like mad.

MarshaBradyo · 02/01/2021 07:21

[quote inquietant]@MarshaBradyo I sense you think Johnson did all he could, but I just don't agree.

We can quibble that this country is bigger, and that one smaller, and this one has higher annual rainfall, and that one has more taxis, and this one is more coastal, and that one has more tourism....

Ultimately did the UK do well? No. Was that a political choice? In part, yes.[/quote]
This isn’t about Johnson it’s about the decisions from WHO and everyone communications in the early days. It’s purely about numbers. Take dislike of politicians out for a minute and consider on basis of numbers.

What day would you have locked down to achieve what NZ did?

MarshaBradyo · 02/01/2021 07:21

Communicating

NotBadConsidering · 02/01/2021 07:21

@Schehezarade

Yes, with hindsight a mistake.
Well, it was a mistake at the time, because everyone with any sense was recommending it them. Hindsight only tells us they were right all along and should have been listened to.
Laradv · 02/01/2021 07:23

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasnt our 1st case from Australia? The man with the moustache?? I just remember the photo of the poor bugger?

Or he was the one that travelled from Italy, to Australia, got tested in Australia, while waiting for his results, travelled the NZ and then found out he was positive...

MarshaBradyo · 02/01/2021 07:25

It’s not quibbling about rainfall or whatever it’s asking people to narrow focus to cases / numbers and reality of this virus when it spreads between countries

I would like people to take out emotion and desire to give a good old kick re doing badly and answer with virus variables at forefront

Even if you think U.K. has done the worst ever (not sure why that’s so interesting to think but hey) at least pick a realistic country to compare with.

NotBadConsidering · 02/01/2021 07:25

Johnson was privy to the same information as everyone else, but he was on holiday. He skipped 5 Cobra meetings about it.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f387c7be-8186-11ea-9de8-8714f28a52b2?shareToken=a9e509d3412e79354166af140bffe77e

MarshaBradyo · 02/01/2021 07:26

Yes he was absent we know NBC

Do you have a date to achieve what NZ did?

Kiwi09 · 02/01/2021 07:28

@MarshaBradyo
We didn’t know it was here in February until much later on, when testing revealed old infection cases. A person had came on holiday from Italy, but only the members of one household were infected at the time, which was just pure luck.
Prior to our lockdown in March though people had become nervous and weren’t as social as usual. Some people were keeping their kids home from school etc.
We cut things pretty fine with our lockdown. If it’d started a week later our situation would have been a lot worse.

Schehezarade · 02/01/2021 07:30

His new partner was having a baby, then he got covid.

Unfortunately there was no one to step in when he was out of the picture.

MarshaBradyo · 02/01/2021 07:30

[quote Kiwi09]@MarshaBradyo
We didn’t know it was here in February until much later on, when testing revealed old infection cases. A person had came on holiday from Italy, but only the members of one household were infected at the time, which was just pure luck.
Prior to our lockdown in March though people had become nervous and weren’t as social as usual. Some people were keeping their kids home from school etc.
We cut things pretty fine with our lockdown. If it’d started a week later our situation would have been a lot worse.[/quote]
Yes I agree with you there. A week later and it would have been very hard. So we know 105 is manageable... just. With full lock down.

Our comparative number? I reckon before Brighton guy given Chinese tourism numbers here

nolongersurprised · 02/01/2021 07:33

www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-told-italian-pm-conte-coronavirus-herd-immunity-plan-2020-6

So the reports that Boris was initially aiming for “herd immunity” (total misappropriation of the term) aren’t true?

FlyingByTheSeatof · 02/01/2021 07:35

They have a tiny population, tons of out door space and nowhere near as many daily travellers that we had. Making it so easy to close the borders etc compared to here.

They have a far more basic infrastructure than us

inquietant · 02/01/2021 07:38

Even if you think U.K. has done the worst ever (not sure why that’s so interesting to think but hey) at least pick a realistic country to compare with. This is a red herring, there'll be we be a country perfect enough GH for those who don't want to consider mistakes. Some will defend the government to the hilt.

NZ followed its scientific advisors when they said lockdown.
UK ignored its scientific advisers when they said lockdown.

That single week delay - entirely the political choice of Johnson - cost 21000 lives.

That is enough of a failure for me to criticise my government. I am a British citizen entitled to judge my own government on the fact that 21000 extra deaths were caused due to ignoring scientific advice.

I don't understand why some are so keen to pretend no one could have done any different. A different PM would have seen far fewer body bags.

NotBadConsidering · 02/01/2021 07:43

@MarshaBradyo

Yes he was absent we know NBC

Do you have a date to achieve what NZ did?

A few weeks before they actually did would have made an inordinate amount of difference. Even now, people can’t get tested, people are moving in and out of the country while positive, etc.

The response of Asian countries and Australia and New Zealand has given them the breathing space to see what works, what doesn’t, watch other countries’ mistakes and learn from them, magpie different ideas from all over etc etc.

The UK just lurches from one bad decision to another because there’s been no time to catch breath.

MarshaBradyo · 02/01/2021 07:44

@inquietant

Even if you think U.K. has done the worst ever (not sure why that’s so interesting to think but hey) at least pick a realistic country to compare with. This is a red herring, there'll be we be a country perfect enough GH for those who don't want to consider mistakes. Some will defend the government to the hilt.

NZ followed its scientific advisors when they said lockdown.
UK ignored its scientific advisers when they said lockdown.

That single week delay - entirely the political choice of Johnson - cost 21000 lives.

That is enough of a failure for me to criticise my government. I am a British citizen entitled to judge my own government on the fact that 21000 extra deaths were caused due to ignoring scientific advice.

I don't understand why some are so keen to pretend no one could have done any different. A different PM would have seen far fewer body bags.

Judge away on 21000 extra deaths. I have no issue go for it. But this is a thread on whether we could do a NZ

I don’t think we could have based on numbers alone. I don’t think others do too otherwise there’d be a realistic lock down date offered.

llamalana · 02/01/2021 07:51

sashagabadon Thu 31-Dec-20 15:10:16
Bellieberg

@sashagabadon - I'm not sure I agree with this. There are plenty of NZ-born staff working in the NHS, including one of the two nurses who attended to our beloved leader?

I don’t mean individuals working in the U.K.. I mean the country itself. What has it done to contribute to the world effort?

It may not be as noteworthy but NZ have contributed www.mbie.govt.nz/science-and-technology/science-and-innovation/international-opportunities/covid-19-vaccine-strategy/

NotBadConsidering · 02/01/2021 07:53

The UK couldn’t have done a New Zealand, purely on numbers.

But it could have done a Singapore, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Belgium, South Africa, Netherlands, China, and so on and so on...

Even doing a Spain would be a considerable improvement.

MarshaBradyo · 02/01/2021 07:56

NotBad Belgium? Isn’t that top? Your list is hugely varied and includes countries that implemented hugely draconian measures or had set up centralised systems after SARS - which we don’t have.

South Africa is struggling again too isn’t it

Spain is a closer mention. But Germany is probably better. If you want good strong leadership - and similar position

inquietant · 02/01/2021 07:59

Yes, the UK could have 'done a NZ'. It could have followed advice and prioritised public health.

Whether we would have got as lucky with numbers as NZ is not the point - we would have done an absurd shed load better than we have and would not be in anything like the mess we are.

Johnson didn't do the right thing for the UK, NZ have much to be proud of.