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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that families who construct their lifestyle around two incomes are living very precariously?

441 replies

Circumlocutious · 30/12/2020 21:48

I’m talking situations where the two incomes are absolutely essential to paying the mortgage and bills. A situation where there is no ‘give’, no flexibility: what if there is a chronic illness in the family, one person can no longer work, school closures (well, you’re seeing it now)? Isn’t this a precarious way to live?

I get that sometimes there may be no other choice, especially when saving up for mortgage. But often it seems like people’s lifestyle - the house they choose to buy, the size of their mortgage, the area they live in, their cars, the schools they pay to send their children to - have adapted to fit around two full incomes, even when they could have made different choices. Many people live fancy lifestyles with no room for error. They can’t scale back their spending without making major changes, eg moving house, which are harder to do once you’re used to your current lifestyle.

AIBU to say that more couples should aim to contain family spending to the level of one earning partner? Is this unrealistic?

OP posts:
GlowingOrb · 30/12/2020 23:57

It’s very easy for our family to keep our essential expenses to one income because we are both high earners and live in a place with affordable housing. It would be wonderful if everyone could live like we do, but it’s never going to be reality. I earn more in a month than some people earn in a year. It would be completely ridiculous for me to say that someone who doesn’t have my economic standing should make the same kind of choices that I make when I’m not making tough choices to begin with.

FrangipaniBlue · 30/12/2020 23:57

I can understand what the OP means I think?

I was shocked at how many people I know who were frantic about being furloughed on 80% pay - these were couples where both work and not in minimum wage jobs but where they essentially have mortgages that take up a BIG % of their pay (no reason other than wanting a bigger fancier house, I don't particularly live in an expensive area) plus high levels of debt to fund the lavish lifestyle.

Whereas we have no debt and a moderate mortgage, we enjoy some luxuries but could easily afford to only have one of us in work. Ok there would be less holidays and trips out for a wee while but the mortgage and bills would still be paid.

MsPeachh · 30/12/2020 23:58

You’re getting a lot of flack OP (and I do agree- one income often isn’t enough these days... wages not rising in line with house prices for a start!) but I know a couple, both on less than £30k salaries, and they live off one salary and save nearly all of the other. They are going to be in an amazing position in a couple of years!

jillypill · 30/12/2020 23:58

Incidentally I don’t think a SAHP is a reliable insurance policy in case the main earner loses their job (getting back into work can be difficult, time consuming and often means accepting a junior-level role that isn’t enough to maintain an existent lifestyle).

So 2 incomes & 1 income & SAHP is precarious? That only really leaves people who have family money or win the lotto.

Flowerblue · 31/12/2020 00:00

You don’t necessarily need to be high earners to do this. But you do need to live in an area where housing is still affordable. It’s not that unusual.

jillypill · 31/12/2020 00:02

Whether debt is a good thing or not you can't ignore the fact that we have a service economy which is partly propped up by people's reliance on debt.

Plus low interest rates have made saving very unattractive.

Original poster
Circumlocutious · 31/12/2020 00:05

@jillypill

Incidentally I don’t think a SAHP is a reliable insurance policy in case the main earner loses their job (getting back into work can be difficult, time consuming and often means accepting a junior-level role that isn’t enough to maintain an existent lifestyle).

So 2 incomes & 1 income & SAHP is precarious? That only really leaves people who have family money or win the lotto.

I didn’t say that two incomes are precarious - but two incomes that are fully required to cover living expenses with very little wiggle room.
OP posts:
MadameBlobby · 31/12/2020 00:06
Biscuit
BuzzingTheBee · 31/12/2020 00:09

Agree, all sorts of reasons, you loose reduce one wage

BuzzingTheBee · 31/12/2020 00:10

Chronic illness
Child with sen
Schools closing!
Elderly parents need help

Duemarch2021 · 31/12/2020 00:11

This is what i will choose to do with dp when we move to our next home.. i coukdnt deal with worrying about not being able to pay bills if one of us lost a job or something.. so stressful... we dont buy anything on finance... car is 2nd hand paid outright... sofa is hand me down.. we dont buy anything that we cant afford by saving up the cash .. This minimises our outgoings so we only have to worry about mortgage and bills.. its quite a nice feeling

Duemarch2021 · 31/12/2020 00:12

Dont actually know why i said we 'will' do it..we do it already now i think about it

CookieDoughKid · 31/12/2020 00:13

I think having a sizeable debt on two incomes such as a big family home can really work to your advantage. You can rent rooms out or build an annex to air BnB out. You can downsize if you have to. And I think certain family homes hold value if not rise in value faster than a 1 bed house. I'm generalising but I'm not afraid of getting into debt to build wealth faster. And having two incomes to leverage greater borrowing power gives you options. We have x3 properties and in 9 years, will have x2 buy to let mortgages paid off completely in the South East and plan is for both these to fund our current home which is a £600k home. I'm 43.

jillypill · 31/12/2020 00:19

We have x3 properties and in 9 years, will have x2 buy to let mortgages paid off completely in the South East and plan is for both these to fund our current home which is a £600k home. I'm 43.

That is risky & too much effort for me but everyone has a different level of risk.

jillypill · 31/12/2020 00:20

I didn’t say that two incomes are precarious - but two incomes that are fully required to cover living expenses with very little wiggle room.

But why is 2 worse than 1?

Original poster
Circumlocutious · 31/12/2020 00:21

I remember this thread from a while ago:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3793257-To-be-permanently-skint-despite-being-on-a-good-salary

OP got a huge amount of flack for it on here (their main outgoings were a very large mortgage, childcare fees, and some loan repayments). it’s a little surprising considering the main reaction to this thread:

OP posts:
jillypill · 31/12/2020 00:23

I don't think the majority of people who have very little wiggle room are blowing all their money on cars, bigger houses, etc.

Thewiseoneincognito · 31/12/2020 00:26

Yep OP bang on the money. So many live pay check to pay check, the bigger the amount the more they burden themselves with.

AlohaMolly · 31/12/2020 00:56

@FrangipaniBlue

I can understand what the OP means I think?

I was shocked at how many people I know who were frantic about being furloughed on 80% pay - these were couples where both work and not in minimum wage jobs but where they essentially have mortgages that take up a BIG % of their pay (no reason other than wanting a bigger fancier house, I don't particularly live in an expensive area) plus high levels of debt to fund the lavish lifestyle.

Whereas we have no debt and a moderate mortgage, we enjoy some luxuries but could easily afford to only have one of us in work. Ok there would be less holidays and trips out for a wee while but the mortgage and bills would still be paid.

I think panicking about being furloughed on 80% pay is a bit of a red herring tbh, assuming those people were highish earners? It was 80% or capped at £2,500 I think? So if you normally bring home £4K a month, suddenly losing £1,500 a month is a BIG deal.
donewithitalltodayandxmas · 31/12/2020 01:19

Just a few years ago we couldn't of even covered the basics on my husbands wage then and I don't have a mortgage and rent a ha house so rent is more affordable
Many people earn min wage which full time is less than £18000 how do you think that pays all the bills

Kingstonmamma · 31/12/2020 01:47

I haven’t RTFT but assuming OP means those in circumstances where they could live well relying on one wage but choose to live better relying on two i.e bigger house, more expensive cars, etc.
In which case I agree, it always felt uncomfortable and risky to me to saddle up to the maximum level of debt just to get those things. We chose to live more modestly so that we were not reliant on two big incomes which has meant smaller house but more flexibility and less money stress.

AdultHumanFemale · 31/12/2020 01:56

It totally depends on how you are prepared to live, if you are in a position where you actually have any choices. So many of us don't, which is an outrage.
DP and I are both public sector workers in an expensive city in the south, each earning less than 25K. We live in a small ex council house on a suburban sink-estate. We bought this house precisely because we wanted to be able to cover all expenses with one salary. We're both frugal and enjoy outdoorsy stuff that doesn't cost a lot, so it's not a big deal. Some of my friends tease me about still being in our tiny and slightly dated 'starter home' in a roughish area, but we love it and consider ourselves very lucky to have no debt other than our mortgage, financial wriggle-room, and savings for a rainy day.

lovelemoncurd · 31/12/2020 01:56

There are other reasons people work you know. I'm an academic, husband SEN teacher. We find our jobs interesting and stimulating and it happens to bring in two incomes. We don't construct anything!

I think you perhaps need to focus on your own choices and leave others to theirs.

Solidaritea · 31/12/2020 02:17

@Flowerblue

You don’t necessarily need to be high earners to do this. But you do need to live in an area where housing is still affordable. It’s not that unusual.
Yes, it's not that unusual in parts of the country. My partner and I need to live in greater London (family care responsibilities) and are both on roughly 40k salaries. We could not get a mortgage for any property based off just one of our salaries, despite having saved a decent deposit through living frugally.
ChestnutStuffing · 31/12/2020 05:10

Op, I agree, it is precarious, and ideally I think it should be avoided if possible.

That being said, for lots of people, it isn't possible, up to a certain income level no one will be able to do much about it.

There are some things that can be done to mitigate the problem, insurance and being careful about debt and savings. Though again, the less income the less choice.

But there are certainly families you see where they are already at 100% income capacity and it's a substantial income, but if something happened to one income they'd be in trouble.

I would say that one advantage of a norm of one income families in a society is that if something happens to the main earner, it is probably possible for the non-earner to get work to compensate to some significant degree. But when two incomes are the norm it affects pices, particularly housing, and people then don't have that flexibility.