To think that families who construct their lifestyle around two incomes are living very precariously?

[Circumlocutious]

I’m talking situations where the two incomes are absolutely essential to paying the mortgage and bills. A situation where there is no ‘give’, no flexibility: what if there is a chronic illness in the family, one person can no longer work, school closures (well, you’re seeing it now)? Isn’t this a precarious way to live?

I get that sometimes there may be no other choice, especially when saving up for mortgage. But often it seems like people’s lifestyle - the house they choose to buy, the size of their mortgage, the area they live in, their cars, the schools they pay to send their children to - have adapted to fit around two full incomes, even when they could have made different choices. Many people live fancy lifestyles with no room for error. They can’t scale back their spending without making major changes, eg moving house, which are harder to do once you’re used to your current lifestyle.

AIBU to say that more couples should aim to contain family spending to the level of one earning partner? Is this unrealistic?

Didn’t Elizabeth Warren write a bok about that?

I wouldn’t live like that, as far as I could avoid it, but it’s expected now. We live in a less nice area and too small home so are very comfortable. But it’s so tempting to go for the lovely huge house and all new furniture etc. The whole housing market seems to be propped up by everyone maxing out on mortgages and borrowing/gifting from family. And those that max out do come out better off longer term if they don’t fall on hard times, due to the housing market appreciating. We lost out by being comfortable, saved less than the nicer area property we considered. Most of the time it will work out.

What white middle class privilege ideas you have.
Some families are on a very low income between both adults and the cost of living is high. It’s not just luxury items the cost of childcare, fuel, home energy and food is very expensive but necessary.

Op I know that your thread wasn't written with lone parents in mind but have you any idea how laughable this sounds to us?

But not just lone parents, the vast majority of the population? Of course there will always be people who live massively beyond their means but for many, this is not a choice. You need two salaries just to have a 'normal' life. By normal I mean a fairly average existence. Mortgage or rent, kids, groceries, 1 holiday a year. You are complete it disregarding the fact that lots of families work in jobs that don't pay much whether they like it or not.

Where do you live? I think you are pretty disconnected from society and what is actually going on for 80 % of the population if you don't mind me saying so.

@PurplePansy05 Thankyou you made me laugh 😆

@Circumlocutious

I’m talking situations where the two incomes are absolutely essential to paying the mortgage and bills. A situation where there is no ‘give’, no flexibility: what if there is a chronic illness in the family, one person can no longer work, school closures (well, you’re seeing it now)? Isn’t this a precarious way to live?

I get that sometimes there may be no other choice, especially when saving up for mortgage. But often it seems like people’s lifestyle - the house they choose to buy, the size of their mortgage, the area they live in, their cars, the schools they pay to send their children to - have adapted to fit around two full incomes, even when they could have made different choices. Many people live fancy lifestyles with no room for error. They can’t scale back their spending without making major changes, eg moving house, which are harder to do once you’re used to your current lifestyle.

AIBU to say that more couples should aim to contain family spending to the level of one earning partner? Is this unrealistic?

People often don’t realise the need to actively save / invest if they don’t come from a family background where they have seen it in action. That’s why the rich get richer - successive generations tend to know how to build wealth and know that buying property on huge mortgages is only part of the story.

I did live like this, big (unprotected) mortgage, lots of credit cards, both earning lots of money but one of us without any entitlement to sick pay. That person developed PTSD and couldn't work for a year and we were bankrupt.

Op please tell me what I’m supposed to do AS a single parent on min wage? Supporting kids at uni (who work p/t themselves)?

I know what you mean. We bought a cheap house in a crap area so that we can afford it on one wage if push came to shove.

My sister and her husband have massively overstretched themselves and really struggle to pay theirs.

But they live in a lovely house in a nice area. So there is an upside.

Meh, everyone is making their own choices. People place different value in certain things, and people are willing to risk different things.

For example, let's say a 2 income couple buy right up to their mortgage limit, and cannot afford their mortgage on one income. That couple might have made that choice because it was the only way they could get into a good school catchment area, so it was a priority to them. Also, they may not see it as a devastating blow if they need to sell up down the line - they got to live in that house they loved for X number of years, their child might have finished school by then, and it's increased in value so now that one person has been made redundant, they can sell their really nice house for more than they paid for it, and downsize. They might see that as a much better scenario than having bought a cheaper house that they didn't enjoy living in as much, and their child having to go to a shitty school that they didn't like.

Also, what if the family would never, ever have a hope of getting on the property ladder at all if only factoring in one income? What If both parents are on minimum wage? When you are on minimum wage you don't get as many choices in life. You do as much as you possible can with what little money you have.

There are so many factors involved in why a family make the choices that they do. It's complicated and you can't make blanket statements like this.

We rely on 2 incomes. We don't have a lavish lifestyle or have big expenses. We go on holiday with either side of our families as we wouldn't be able to afford to go on our own. We have a mortgage on a small flat (which is all that we could afford) and have to have 2 cars to run, and I only work part time at the minute. If we did as you suggest OP and just relied on one wage, we could probably just do it, but we would end up needing help and would have no quality of life whatsoever, so what would be the point.

Not realistic, although I do think some families push themselves and their income v outgoings to the absolute wire.

A bit of wiggle room is wise.

Op

I take home £1380.

You’d have me living on under £700 a month.

How?

I keep myself, a house, and I support my kids out of that. Which is a choice I make to give THEM the best opportunities in life.

Please can you address the point of what single parents on low incomes are supposed to do? My kids are at uni now so I’m not eligible for benefits for them.

Thanks.

Please can you address the point of what single parents on low incomes are supposed to do? My kids are at uni now so I’m not eligible for benefits for them.

I think OP's world consists of upper middle class 2 parent families. You are supposed to continue existing as you do in a hypothetical world that she never encounters.

this is not the 1960s, that is how life is

Well please accept my applause for anyone who is able to raise a family on one salary, I'll even print off a certificate if you like?

Being able to pay all bills on one salary is not accessible for so many families for so many reasons. Your post is incredibly condescending and ignorant of the socio-economic nuances many people live with.

As I was, for many years, the main bread winner and not well-paid as a nurse, it was impossible not to live hand to mouth.
The suggestion of even having savings was a joke. We were tenant farmers and I worked 50+ hours a week just to keep ourselves afloat.
I imagine for many now that still remains a reality.
‘Wriggle room’ may be admirable but is frequently completely unrealistic.

I hate my job, one of the reasons I stay is because of what I earn and how it allows us to live a nicer lifestyle and splurge every now and then. If I didn’t reap the benefits of that higher salary at all then quite frankly I’d pack it in and find a lower paying, more rewarding job.

We have backup plans - savings, insurances, and if the shit really did hit the fan we’d sell up and move to a cheaper area. But I don’t see why we should have moved directly to that shitter area in the first place?

What insurance against your husband being a serial shagger can you get? Can someone link me it please?

The only people I know raising a family on 1 income either have a breadwinner on £100k plus pa or have significant support from family who offer regular financial extras and pay for big expenses.

Many households need two incomes to survive OP.

However, I do think budgeting and financial management should be taught at schools though. So many live way beyond their means, and have been truly fucked in this pandemic once they've lost a job etc.

@blackcat86

The only people I know raising a family on 1 income either have a breadwinner on £100k plus pa or have significant support from family who offer regular financial extras and pay for big expenses.

I raised my family on one income.

I was INCREDIBLY glad of the tax credits system because I got no maintenance and no help from anywhere else.

I didn’t earn 100k or anywhere near it. Still don’t.

I agree to an extent, this is the first time DH and I are stretching with a new mortgage that is a much higher proportion of our income. But we've lived in cheaper areas/houses previously but schooling and security are now our priority so we are willing to take a higher risk. It's a choice, but we want the best for our children we can afford it, have taken insurance out to minimise risk of critical illness/redundancy and hope for the best

We have done this - Not out of choice but due to ill health. So although there are benefits - mainly childcare, the negatives are that we have never been able to pull together enough money for a house deposit, we don’t have a lot of money for treats such as holidays abroad, and the wage earner has less flexibility to think of taking a career break or retraining. On the plus side, we have no debt at all, we aren’t responsible for major repairs to the house, and we can move if we don’t like somewhere. But there is very little flex in the system. Would be stymied if I couldn’t carry on working. And we are lucky that I have a job I love, with lots of opportunity for development (moderately good wage and secure pension).

But I don’t see why we should have moved directly to that shitter area in the first place?

This. Yes some people piss money away, at every income level.

But for many many people, paying off the big mortgage in particular means owning a asset of greater value, which can in itself be a financial safety net as you can downsize to cut costs.

Unrealistic but in some cases not able to avoid. I think focus on other expenditure should come first- don't have a Chelsea Tractor, have modest holidays, for example.