Hilaria Baldwin - THREAD 2

[itsmeagain76]

This is for the person who asked if her husband was also lied to. The video seems to answer this.

@stairway You also fail to appreciate the racism and discrimination that Spanish speakers suffer in the US. The association of Spanish people with the Hispanic community in the US has already been discussed at length in this thread and the previous one.

She chose to appropriate an identity that suffers from racism in the US. She herself has claimed to be a victim of that. So what she has done is harmful, as she has taken away the experiences of minorities and immigrants and made them her own to make herself more marketable.

well, I think it is a very dangerous world where people "select" an identity so, yes we disagree wholeheartedly on that.

On a lighter note and to illustrate how very daft it would be to live in a world of people selecting an identity based on their hobbies etc:

It's a bit anti-poor people - there will be very poor people living her in the UK reading this and knowing they've always loved everything Spanish. They've just been unlucky enough that their parents didn't have the money to pay for the education/holidays/time to immerse themselves in their desired new identity.

It's a bit elitist, that only rich people can select adopt a Spanish identity based on her immersive hobby.

It might be we'd have to let poorer people without access to Spanish lessons identify as Spanish, otherwise it's a bit elitist this selecting an identity?

Anyhow the point is Hilaira has been saying she is a person of colour-(for US purposes) and why in her confession video she explains Europe has lots of "white" people and that yes, she is white after all.

No, Biden is obviously not the same but as we said on the other thread, people find US plastic paddies completely obnoxious and cringe.

have a gander at how many facebook groups are devoted to getting annoyed about this- ones for plastic paddies, 'styrofoam scots', 'counterfeitalians', 'sillicone scandis' and i cant remember what they call the Polish ones.

There seems to be a lot of emphasis on her being wrong to change her name and be known as Hilaria rather than Hilary to appear more Spanish but no one accuses the many celebrities who have changed their names from "foreign" sounding names to more mainstream versions, as being unacceptable. Why is that?

Two examples are George Micheal - Georgios Kyriacos* Panayiotou*
Jennifer Anniston - Jennifer Anastassakis.
Are they wrong to masquerade as Brits and Americans? Granted, they haven't gone quite as far but it's the same thing, in essence.

@Plonque

There seems to be a lot of emphasis on her being wrong to change her name and be known as Hilaria rather than Hilary to appear more Spanish but no one accuses the many celebrities who have changed their names from "foreign" sounding names to more mainstream versions, as being unacceptable. Why is that?

Two examples are George Micheal - Georgios Kyriacos* Panayiotou*
Jennifer Anniston - Jennifer Anastassakis.
Are they wrong to masquerade as Brits and Americans? Granted, they haven't gone quite as far but it's the same thing, in essence.

It's not unheard of for immigrants to anglicize their names in order to fit in. I suspect HB goes by the Spanish version of her name to stand out.

I’m not saying she is Spanish, she clearly isn’t. I do think identity is a difficult thing. The modern idea of identity has only been around since the 1960s. In America people generally choose an additional ethnic identity, usually based loosely on ancestry or race. She could have looked at her ancestry and picked something else but for some reason chose Spanish, probably based on her childhood experiences. She of course took it a step further and created a fantasy life. I don’t think she ever described herself as being non white though. She mentioned the discrimination of being a Spanish speaker ( she is a Spanish speaker though)
Mumsnetters have given her the identity of a Wasp but that isn’t the identity she wants, and it might not even be accurate. It also has negative connotations. White Americans don’t like the negative associations of being white so they tend to lump those associations with being ‘anglo saxon’ . Therefore you get people like Biden describing themselves as being Irish and not British and Irish.

@user1471565182
I really don't like the term "plastic paddy".
I think it's nice that people feel a bond with where their ancestors have come from. It's nice that their parents, grandparents etc have imbued a love of their culture.
So many had to emigrate, through no fault of their own, for economic reasons, the Famine etc.
For some that remained in Ireland, the money sent back to the "old country" by those who had emigrated made a huge difference and the recipients were most grateful.

@Plonque

There seems to be a lot of emphasis on her being wrong to change her name and be known as Hilaria rather than Hilary to appear more Spanish but no one accuses the many celebrities who have changed their names from "foreign" sounding names to more mainstream versions, as being unacceptable. Why is that?

Two examples are George Micheal - Georgios Kyriacos* Panayiotou*
Jennifer Anniston - Jennifer Anastassakis.
Are they wrong to masquerade as Brits and Americans? Granted, they haven't gone quite as far but it's the same thing, in essence.

As these are stage names, I’m not sure it’s quite the same thing. But that aside, people do this to fit in or avoid discrimination as immigrants so it’s perfectly understandable. I would have a very foreign name if I were following convention, but I’ve taken my DM’s British one instead because it’s easier to spell essentially. But this doesn’t involve pretending to be something I’m not. Meanwhile she is trying to take on the cool aspects of an identity that isn’t hers while she will never take on the actual discrimination that might go with it.

Also Jennifer Anniston for example has never hidden her roots - she’s from a famous family after all - and there’s several nods to her origins in Friends. But at the same time, I’m not aware of her having banged on about being a Greek American. So I really can’t fault her at all.

Both my maternal grandad & dad anglicised their surnames when they came to the U.K. I see no problem with that as at the time it was far easier for them to get work.

FYI and as far as I’m aware within the community George Michael drop of Panayiotou for his career wasn’t an issue.

What is an acceptable reason to change a name though? Discrimination, marriage, changing religion. What if you just don’t like your name or don’t think it suits your identity? I don’t think you can say what is an acceptable reason as long as it’s not done to commit fraud.

There could be a million acceptable reasons, including practical and fun ones. Doing it to share power with those with more power than you seems understandable at least. Fraud or trying to take power from people who have less of it than you doesn’t feel right to me.

Jennifer Aniston's real name is just that, it was her dad who changed it.

Is there a video where she speaks Spanish?
From the short snippets linked to in the OP she doesn't sound like a fluent Spanish speaker.

I don’t think she did it for fraudulent reasons or to take ‘power’ away from Spain people. Spanish people aren’t even called Hilaria anyway. She did it because of her own bizarre identity issues. I don’t think in her case there is any evidence she harmed anyone other than herself and family regarding her identity issues. I appreciate that Rachel dozsil? Did actually commit some fraud and some harm to the black community and there are of course incidences of trans women harming women.

@Plonque Your comment shows why HB’s behaviour is so problematic.

Immigrants often change their name so they can fit it and not be ostracised at work, when applying for jobs, etc. They change their names to avoid being the victim of racism or discrimination. To avoid being mocked or treated differently because their name is foreign.

HB changed her name to something Spanish to sound more Spanish and then had the audacity to claim she’s been a victim of discrimination. She is the epitome of white privilege and she felt that wasn’t enough, so took the experiences of immigrants and minorities to make herself more marketable. Her behaviour is extremely insulting.

I really do think it was a fraudulent power grab. The very epitome of one, used to generate income and exposure and status.

@stairway

I’m not saying she is Spanish, she clearly isn’t. I do think identity is a difficult thing. The modern idea of identity has only been around since the 1960s. In America people generally choose an additional ethnic identity, usually based loosely on ancestry or race. She could have looked at her ancestry and picked something else but for some reason chose Spanish, probably based on her childhood experiences. She of course took it a step further and created a fantasy life. I don’t think she ever described herself as being non white though. She mentioned the discrimination of being a Spanish speaker ( she is a Spanish speaker though) Mumsnetters have given her the identity of a Wasp but that isn’t the identity she wants, and it might not even be accurate. It also has negative connotations. White Americans don’t like the negative associations of being white so they tend to lump those associations with being ‘anglo saxon’ . Therefore you get people like Biden describing themselves as being Irish and not British and Irish.

But there has to be truth underpinning the person.

And not what feels true, it has to actually be true.

I disagree as she hasn’t benefitted from giving herself a bizarre name. She has become rich and famous because of who she married not because she was pretending to be Spanish and Im sure Baldwin was well aware before he married her. However I appreciate famous people change their name either to appear more interesting or to appear more normal. I think people are reading into it too much and projecting.

She’s become far more famous as Alec Baldwin’s Spanish wife and mother to the Baldwinitos than she would otherwise have been. She wouldn’t have had the exposure, particularly on Spanish/Latina press.

Her upbringing is the epitome of privileged and rich prior to marrying Alec - you don't get to go to the school she attended without being privileged.

The marrying AB has brought her fame. She's made herself infamous!

The Spanish identity has brought her publicity and unique selling point on the back of others suffering discrimination. She is a con artist.

Her expensive immersive hobby does not make her Spanish....(person of color) as US would term her prior to her admitting she's "white" (mad to UK ears) but that's what she was selling herself as.

She mentioned the discrimination of being a Spanish speaker ( she is a Spanish speaker though)

She isn't. She may speak Spanish, but she's a native English speaker and has no trace of a Spanish accent (how could she?) There's no way the fact that she speaks Spanish as a foreign language means she's shared in the discrimination faced by many Hispanics in America. It's ridiculous to suggest this.

Mumsnetters have given her the identity of a Wasp but that isn’t the identity she wants, and it might not even be accurate. It also has negative connotations. White Americans don’t like the negative associations of being white so they tend to lump those associations with being ‘anglo saxon’

You're making it sound as though 'identity' is something you pick off the supermarket shelf, like a hair colour. Oh, I don't FEEL like a brunette, so maybe Light Golden Blonde? Then again, blondeness can have negative 'dumb' connotations, so how about auburn instead?

Joe Biden may choose to exaggerate his Irish 'roots' and play down his English ones, but at least he does have some Irish ancestry. So it really isn't the same thing as creating a faux Spanish 'identity' to give yourself an 'edge' in the yoga teaching/Instagram influencing world. It really isn't.

I always thought there was something weird about her and when she paraded around in her pants taking selfies and posting them on sm stating she was having a miscarriage then the next day was asking for privacy was beyond the par!! Clearly unhinged! And that alec is nothing to shout about either, the narcissistic prick!

@Plonque

There seems to be a lot of emphasis on her being wrong to change her name and be known as Hilaria rather than Hilary to appear more Spanish but no one accuses the many celebrities who have changed their names from "foreign" sounding names to more mainstream versions, as being unacceptable. Why is that?

Two examples are George Micheal - Georgios Kyriacos* Panayiotou*
Jennifer Anniston - Jennifer Anastassakis.
Are they wrong to masquerade as Brits and Americans? Granted, they haven't gone quite as far but it's the same thing, in essence.

That is not the same thing. Those two examples have not altered their name to assume another culture, especially since those two examples were born in England and the USA respectively. Stage names are a thing.

[quote MsHedgehog]@Plonque Your comment shows why HB’s behaviour is so problematic.

Immigrants often change their name so they can fit it and not be ostracised at work, when applying for jobs, etc. They change their names to avoid being the victim of racism or discrimination. To avoid being mocked or treated differently because their name is foreign.

HB changed her name to something Spanish to sound more Spanish and then had the audacity to claim she’s been a victim of discrimination. She is the epitome of white privilege and she felt that wasn’t enough, so took the experiences of immigrants and minorities to make herself more marketable. Her behaviour is extremely insulting.[/quote]
Exactly this.

I am on the fence when it comes to a lot of cries of cultural appropriation (certainly not all, mind you) but this is as blatant as you can get.