Emotional abuse in Harry Potter

[MrsRogerLima]

Don't get me wrong, I love Harry Potter but I never thought about the Ron/Hermione thing this way before and she is SO RIGHT.

AIBU to think this is irresponsible in children's literature?

www.bustle.com/articles/198364-ron-hermiones-relationship-in-harry-potter-wasnt-just-disappointing-but-dangerous

I guess the author of this piece believes we should ban Thomas Hardy then.

Another slamming of JKR. Poor woman. I imagine she might it differently now. But I think it was a definite attempt to produce a strong, talented female character who actually gets to achieve something and be involved in the adventure in the story, unlike most female characters in books I grew up with.

Think back on all children's literature, before society decided they were a weird mix of utterly fragile yet totally independent creatures.

Enid Blyton is enough to see it. Every good, as in popular with the kids, book has all sorts of alienation visited upon the young protagonists..

Swallows and Amazon's... some.very dysfunctional adults looming large

Secret Garden...

All of them!

As a kid reading was one way of working through all sorts of emotions. We don't do kids any favours by removing this, we just fail to teach them how to start being emotionally resilient.

Im curious what do people think of the Twilight series?

It was rubbish and I highly question a 100+ year old getting with a teenager. I question the thought process of the author who wrote it as well. Why did they think that was acceptable at the time?

I have read so many books where the relationships are damaging/abusive i would never have put HP in the same category. Heathcliff/Cathy? Thats an awful relationship!

The thing is that the relationships in HP weren't supposed to be bad relationships. They were supposed to be a happy ending. Which is why when you read them now, you're kind of like because Ron and Hermione is only a happy ending if you are viewing it through the lens of the early 2000's. Which is why you see the relationship picked apart now.

Heathcliff and Cathy was supposed to be a disaster and awful. That was the whole point.

The more worrying abuse as mentioned upthread is the Dursley's treatment of Harry & that no one in either the Muggle or Wizarding world steps in. I could never process Dumbledore allowing that, put me off him a bit.
I agree with this. Harry was at a Muggle Primary School until age 11, they didn't ever pick up on the fact that his cousin was bullying him, he was undernourished and dressed in hand me downs in the wrong sizes. Also as a "child in care" (I.e. not living with a parent) then he would have had a social worker. Given how outspoken Harry is at Hogwarts, it's a bit hard to believe he never mentioned to a teacher or pupil that he was kept in the cupboard under the stairs!

Even if the school system missed all of those, Dumbledore definitely knew about it and could have done something. It's clear that the Dursleys are scared of him.

@MichelleScarn

Is it just JK thats been highlighted for this perception of her book? What do you think if other authors and their relationships in characters? Alcott with Jo, Laurie and Amy? Jo and Laurie are really in love, but she's not ladylike or permissive enough so he chooses her sister instead could be an interpretation? Am sure there's more examples!

But Laurie tries to get Jo to marry him repeatedly, and only proposes to Amy when she’s made it clear she doesn’t think of him as a potential husband.

The very obvious reason Hermione is ‘weakened’ by having feelings for, and then being in a relationship with Ron is to ‘normalise’ her away from rivalling Harry’s status as the one who saves the world from Voldemort— Harry couldn’t have succeeded for ten minutes without her advanced skills, analytic intelligence and forward-planning.

I was watching Deathly Hallows Pt 1 with my eight year old last night, and he pointed out that literally none of the plot could have happened had Hermione not packed everything three of them needed for a year, including a tent, a library of reference books, potion ingredients, medical supplies that save Ron’s life etc into her beaded bag and kept it on her at Bill and Fleur’s wedding, not to mention looked up and perfected the protective charms around the camp.

Ron is a plot device to keep H yearning and confused — and to make us see her as fallible, and a bit of a fool for love (because it’s frankly incredible that someone like her would fall for humdrum old Ron) so she doesn’t emerge too strongly as the real heroine of the series.

@rollinggreenhills

They were children and children are horrible to one another.

I'd be far more concerned about a teacher subjecting a pupil to emotional abuse, by the way. The Snape / Harry dynamic is not what one would expect as an example to follow either.

But hey ho - it's fiction folks.

Anyway, what sort of role model for girls is Elizabeth Bennett in Pride & Prejudice? She only decides she's in love with Mr Darcy when she finally realises how rich he is. She falls in love with his house first.

lol yes re the house

hey gradually ascended for half a mile, and then found themselves at the top of a considerable eminence, where the wood ceased, and the eye was instantly caught by Pemberley House, situated on the opposite side of a valley, into which the road with some abruptness wound. It was a large, handsome, stone building, standing well on rising ground, and backed by a ridge of high woody hills;—and in front, a stream of some natural importance was swelled into greater, but without any artificial appearance. Its banks were neither formal, nor falsely adorned. Elizabeth was delighted. She had never seen a place where nature had done more, or where natural beauty had been so little counteracted by an awkward taste. They were all of them warm in her admiration; and at that moment she felt that to be mistress of Pemberley might be something!

JK ROWLING ATE MY PUPPY

Sauce? Source?

The first Harry Potter book came out when I was 9 and I grew up with the Harry Potter series. The release of each book coincided with whatever year I was in at school. At the time of reading the books and where JKR starts to introduce romantic relationships, even then I thought the love interests were clumsy and an after thought. It felt like JKR introduced romance sub-plots to keep 14/15 year old girls still slightly interested rather than losing them to YA romance. I never liked any of the main romances. I thought Hermione deserved better than Ron and her feelings for him seem to come out of the blue when he was dating someone else. Suddenly she was very bad tempered about Ron having a girlfriend when there had been no previous hints at being interested previously. Now obviously, this is written from Harry’s perspective and we also know he can be slightly unobservant about everything. It felt like Hermione was generally friends with Harry and put up with Ron because he was friends with Harry. The Hermione/Ron relationship never held much interest for me. It was absurd and even at 16, reading the final books that they decide to declare their feelings in the middle of a battle was beyond ridiculous.

The Ginny/Harry romance also felt like an after thought. Harry only seemed interested in Ginny when she started dating other people. There are examples of other strong relationships in the book such as Lupin and Tonks.

As to your AIBU of whether these topics should be considered in children’s literature, why not? I also read a lot of Jacqueline Wilson and her books always covered some controversial topics. Or the Noughts and Crosses series, the relationship between Callum and Sephy. One of my favourite childhood books is Matilda, which is about child abuse. I don’t think children need to be protected from the realities of life and for some children they find solace in having stories that reflect them and their lives. I think it’s also important to note that we don’t read these stories the same as we do when we’re adults. Same goes for TV shows, films and even music. The other day I was enjoying listening to a Christmas playlist and Spice Girls 2 become 1 started playing. I knew all the words and started dancing like I was 6 all over again. Listening to the lyrics now at 30, I’m not surprised my mum wasn’t a fan of my spice girl obsession when I was younger but at the time I didn’t know have a clue what the lyrics were going on about.

Hermione is pretty cutting to Ron at times, I don’t think it was all one way.

This thread captures everything wrong with the way we now read literature.

I think it’s utterly harmless famous five with a bit of magic thrown in. We read FAR more disturbing tails in our teens. Flowers in the Attic? Lace? Clan of the Cave Bear? Honestly waving wands for a few more years is infinitely preferable

But I think it was a definite attempt to produce a strong, talented female character who actually gets to achieve something and be involved in the adventure in the story, unlike most female characters in books I grew up with.

I think the mistake she made with Hermione was sticking to an endgame with Ron as that's how she'd 'foreshadowed' throughout the narrative. I think it would have been too brave a step in the end for her not to put them together, even though by the end of the series they evidently didn't 'fit' after everything they'd been through.

I'd like to see a smart and independent female character actually say 'you know what, I see that we have had close to a 'love connection' as you can get at this very young age, but I need to be my own person especially after years of being a mental and emotional babysitter for some boys who get most of the credit for my brilliance'. I'm not sure of I'm aware of any book where a brilliant female character isn't lessened or even destroyed by a male they fall for. Certainly not made better for having a male counterpart, whilst men are always 'fixed and bettered' for the love of a good woman.

@donquixotedelamancha

To save others from wasting time, the examples of 'emotional abuse' from the article are:

• He makes her cry when they first meet, aged 11.
• He's a sulky git (and dates someone else) when she dates someone else at 14ish.
• He's a knobhead while possessed by an evil magic artefact.

There is a great discussion to be had about unhealthy relationship expectations caused by fiction but why, FFS, would HP feature highly?

She's cleverer than him but he's kind and loyal. She rescues him more than the other way around. They are both emotionally illiterate because they are children but they grow and learn rather than just being Mary-Sues or empty sidekicks for the hero.

Doesn't JK have domestic abuse in her relationship history?

Yeah right. That's why she writes a teenage boy as a bit of a dick sometimes.

Agree with this.

They are kids! Over read much.

I like to think that Ron grew up.

Teenaged boys are often revolting to their friends, to their girlfriends and to their parents. They mostly grow up and learn how to behave decently.
Teenaged girls, too, can be horrible to their boyfriends. They are still children learning about relationships and how to consider other people.

At least there was none of the sexual harassment that many teenaged girls have to fight off at school.

I'm more worried about Narnia tbh. Teaching kids that it's safe to ride on a lion is just irresponsible.

@BitterAndOnlySlightlyTwisted

I seem to remember reading Hans Christian Anderson as a child (or it could have been the Brothers Grimm, it was an awfully long time ago) and many of the stories were about witches trapping children in ovens and suchlike. I wasn’t traumatised and I doubt HP would do the same whatever was under discussion.

This!! I wholeheartedly agree

Jesus. At 13 i was reading Flowers in the Attic.
Now that's unhealthy......

HoldingForGeneralHugs Twilight: the central relationship is APPALLING! The author is hardcore religious and clearly has some odd attitudes about sex and relationships!

I was watching Goblet of Fire the other day and was thinking how much Ron and Harry's behaviour reminded me of boys at secondary school- and they are supposed to be about 40 now IIRC, I'm 45 so very much in my era at school. For a book about magic, some things are surprisingly real.

I can only assume that none of the complainers here have ever had teenage children (or have ever been a teenaged child themselves).
Childrens' relationships are often clumsy and gauche. Being in 1990 or 2020 makes no difference to that. I think JKR actually represented that quite well with the Hermione/Ron school episodes (equally with Harry & Cho)
Would they have got married in real life? Probably not, but frankly so what - it's a childrens's story.

However C.S. Lewis's treatment of Susan is on a different level...

@SpiderinaWingMirror

Jesus. At 13 i was reading Flowers in the Attic. Now that's unhealthy......

FitA continues to be one of the most fucked up series I've ever read. I read it a lot as well, just to make sure I fully got how fucked up it was....

Harry Potter and the Teenage Relationship Emotional Trauma my arse, these people haven't been born!

OP, you have quite the surprise coming if you think literature should be responsible for showing you personally how to be healthy in a relationship as opposed to tell a story

The point is to entertain, and to make you reflect.

Which it has done.

It's literature. Not a manual for life. Ffs.

@IamTomHanks

I can't read the essay because it's blocked by my work, but surely very few people could argue that portrayals of toxic/abusive relationships/situations, particularly what women are expected to find attractive/put up with, in fiction over history has lead to women having very low standards for what's appropriate behavior in a relationship in general.... I thought that was a pretty well confirmed/respected theory.....

I RTFT to see if anyone else picked this up but do you mean you’re blocked from viewing certain content at work because you’re meant to be working? Can you not read it on your phone in your lunch break?