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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think it doesn’t really matter how I hold my cutlery.

522 replies

Frosty2894 · 26/12/2020 21:12

With all the things going on in the world right now, I’m writing a post about how we hold cutlery.

I remember being told I’m cack handed by my grandmother when I was a child 🤨 she didn’t say it in a nasty way but said she was similar.

I’m right handed. I hold my fork in my right hand and knife in left. This is the way I’ve always done it and felt comfortable, was never told or taught the correct way.

For years my partner has joked about how I can’t hold a knife and fork properly and even mentioned trying it the other way. I’ve tried - it doesn’t feel right to me. He told me that his mother would probably tell me to switch hands as it’s her ‘pet gate’. We’ve been together for 9 years. He’s not mentioned it for a while (until tonight) and I’ve avoided eating in front of his mother as much as possible else I feel paranoid. Feel like I’m being watched!

Generally my table manners are okay I think. I’m not a complete slob when It comes to eating or anything!

Aibu to think it really doesn’t matter? Partner has mentioned it tonight and does it really bleddy matter?!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Ginfordinner · 30/12/2020 08:23

Excellent post @WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll

shamus2020 · 30/12/2020 08:41

I'm right handed, I hold the fork in my right hand and knife in my left. If I have to cut something up I have to swap the knife to my right then change back round to pick the food up with the fork Confused I can't do anything with my left hand.

SinkGirl · 30/12/2020 08:45

What I described was merely a sifting process, I presume. The process during the rest of that day was more conventional - as were the subsequent interviews. He is very much judged on his ability to do the job - obviously - and he is already proving himself.

So if a candidate was impeccably mannered through this lunch, dressed well, used the right set of cutlery for each course, helped themselves last, didn’t reach past anyone, placed their salt on the side of their plate, didn’t speak with their mouthful and otherwise followed Debrett’s to the letter, yet held their knife and fork in the opposite hands to others while using them correctly in terms of holding them, then did well in their tests and interviews... you think they wouldn’t be hired?

Utter, utter nonsense. This is not talking with your mouth open or getting pissed or putting your elbows on the table. Anyone who cannot see this is bizarre.

I’m sure even the treasury is aware that some people are left handed.

Nanny0gg · 30/12/2020 08:55

TLDR

I dont think it matters which way round you hold your knife and fork. If you're left handed were long past the days of 'correcting' that.

However, cutlery was designed to be comfortable and effective held a certain way and I can't bear to see some of the weird and wonderful ways forks are held sometimes. Stabbing them the wrong way round into the food, sawing awkwardly with a knife then scooping the food into the mouth is not nice to watch

FunkBus · 30/12/2020 10:59

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll

If it's not ok to complain about how people hold their cutlery, why is it ok to say it's rude not to meet someone's eye? That's a massive struggle for many of us (autistic/ADHD/shyness/social anxiety).

One rule for one thing and another for another.

I am betting you wouldn't go to Japan and start stabbing into your food with chopsticks and then telling any Japanese person who questioned it that it's FIIIIINE

SinkGirl · 30/12/2020 11:35

[quote FunkBus]@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll

If it's not ok to complain about how people hold their cutlery, why is it ok to say it's rude not to meet someone's eye? That's a massive struggle for many of us (autistic/ADHD/shyness/social anxiety).

One rule for one thing and another for another.

I am betting you wouldn't go to Japan and start stabbing into your food with chopsticks and then telling any Japanese person who questioned it that it's FIIIIINE[/quote]
But how does that compare in any way to holding your knife and fork in the opposite hands, as long as you’re using them correctly? It’s not remotely the same as any of the things considered rude here since there’s a reason why it’s rude. The only reason for cutlery the standard way round is that most people are right handed (although I am mostly right handed and feel much more comfortable with a fork in my dominant hand, but that is probably because of nerve damage in my left arm / hand - but there are plenty who are righties and feel the same way). There have been vague allusions to elbowing people (which has never happened to me ever, and just as likely with either arm if seated between two people) but otherwise no one can say why it’s actually rude or uncivilised or anything else.

FunkBus · 30/12/2020 11:38

"But how does that compare in any way to holding your knife and fork in the opposite hands, as long as you’re using them correctly? It’s not remotely the same as any of the things considered rude here since there’s a reason why it’s rude. The only reason for cutlery the standard way round is that most people are right handed (although I am mostly right handed and feel much more comfortable with a fork in my dominant hand, but that is probably because of nerve damage in my left arm / hand - but there are plenty who are righties and feel the same way). There have been vague allusions to elbowing people (which has never happened to me ever, and just as likely with either arm if seated between two people) but otherwise no one can say why it’s actually rude or uncivilised or anything else."

You can equally say the same about looking in someone's eyes. It is a sign of respect in the west, but a sign of disrespect in much of Asia, so you can't possibly say it just IS polite, so it is exactly the same thing. A made up cultural rule.

midgeghost · 30/12/2020 11:48

Isn't it a leftover from when left handed people were considered sinister and evil ?

MyPersona · 30/12/2020 12:01

@midgeghost

Isn't it a leftover from when left handed people were considered sinister and evil ?
The thing is that the thread wasn’t anything to do with left handedness. The question was does it matter that the OP, a right handed and presumably neurotypical adult, doesn’t hold her cutlery in the way that is the culturally acceptable norm in (presumably) Britain. Some people think that cultural norms in Britain are an archaic load of old bollocks, although this dismissive attitude generally doesn’t extend to other cultures, and some people think that in some circumstances it is still worthwhile, important even, to be able to conform. Several people have explained why ‘rules’ about using cutlery have come about for practical reasons and are therefore still relevant.
CallmeNessa · 30/12/2020 12:13

My son does this - he has struggled with fine motor skills, is right handed but prefers to eat with the knife and fork the other way around. No problem - why not?

Pen holding or other grips I don't like, but would never comment on! Correct table manners, cutlery grip etc were drilled into me (unpleasantly) as a child so that's probably why I notice. (Elbows off the table! Don't speak with your mouth full! Ask for things to be passed, don't reach across the table! Keep your mouth closed! Wait until you are offered! Wait until everyone has their meal before eating! Don't scrape your teeth on your fork! - endless!)

As long as you don't eat from your knife like my SM, Shockor have your mouth open when you are chewing, then I think you are fine!!

SinkGirl · 30/12/2020 12:16

@FunkBus

"But how does that compare in any way to holding your knife and fork in the opposite hands, as long as you’re using them correctly? It’s not remotely the same as any of the things considered rude here since there’s a reason why it’s rude. The only reason for cutlery the standard way round is that most people are right handed (although I am mostly right handed and feel much more comfortable with a fork in my dominant hand, but that is probably because of nerve damage in my left arm / hand - but there are plenty who are righties and feel the same way). There have been vague allusions to elbowing people (which has never happened to me ever, and just as likely with either arm if seated between two people) but otherwise no one can say why it’s actually rude or uncivilised or anything else."

You can equally say the same about looking in someone's eyes. It is a sign of respect in the west, but a sign of disrespect in much of Asia, so you can't possibly say it just IS polite, so it is exactly the same thing. A made up cultural rule.

I’m not talking about eye contact, I have two autistic children who make very little. I’m taking about etiquette around table manners, as listed here, and swapping cutlery into the opposite hands funnily enough isn’t listed, while many rules are, some of which I’m sure many outspoken people here do not follow:

www.debretts.com/expertise/etiquette/table-manners/table-rules/

@MyPersona having followed the thread I haven’t seen a single legitimate reason why using cutlery correctly but in the opposite hands is important or has any impact on other people at the table. Not one.

TheBuffster · 30/12/2020 12:18

I do this. Play a recorder 'wrong' too. Wear a watch on my right. People always point it out. So rude.

FunkBus · 30/12/2020 12:36

@SinkGirl but i was answering a point about eye contact Confused

No one gives a shit about Debretts, we're not talking about taking tea with the queen, we're talking about basic manners.

paisleybandana · 30/12/2020 12:44

I hold my fork with my right hand, and swap if I need to cut something. Very common in the USA where I grew up. Who gives a sh*t, really? As long as you're not smacking your lips or putting your face in your plate, why do people care so much? Why are people so attached to these pointless customs disguised as manners?

Also, you won't catch me squashing my food onto the back of my fork.

FunkBus · 30/12/2020 12:47

"As long as you're not smacking your lips or putting your face in your plate, why do people care so much? Why are people so attached to these pointless customs disguised as manners?"

Plenty of cultures do smack their lips. Why does it bother you so much? Why are you so attached to pointless social customs?

TheBuffster · 30/12/2020 12:49

@wellthatsunusual

I think they are all sufficiently clever to read between the lines.

So it's not a formal interview task then? That's why I was asking if there is no law covering that sort of thing? It would never be allowed where I live on account of fair employment law which covers recruitment practices. Everywhere I have worked, even internal recruitment trawls have involved a formal application process. At shortlisting the panel don't even see the candidates name, much less how they hold their cutlery.

I'm pretty sure being dyslexic and thus holding my cutlery this way I could sue them for discrimination.
paisleybandana · 30/12/2020 12:50

All the people saying it is "wrong" and wondering why parents "failed to correct their children" when holding cutlery the "wrong" way - you know that the way forks & knives are used at mealtimes is not universal, yes? Putting a fork into your mouth upside-down (with tines pointing downwards) is not universal, neither is always holding both a knife and fork while eating, and neither is holding the fork in the left hand. It's cultural. And pointless to try and enforce something so inane, I think.

paisleybandana · 30/12/2020 12:52

@FunkBus

"As long as you're not smacking your lips or putting your face in your plate, why do people care so much? Why are people so attached to these pointless customs disguised as manners?"

Plenty of cultures do smack their lips. Why does it bother you so much? Why are you so attached to pointless social customs?

In this culture smacking your lips is pretty rude while eating as it imposes on others. But I don't see how holding your fork in your right hand can be construed in the same way, as it does not affect anyone else's experience!
TheBuffster · 30/12/2020 12:52

Also.. those family mealtimes sound fun.

froggywentacarolling · 30/12/2020 13:03

Oh step off FunkBus. The reason I mentioned Ethiopian food is to make the point that cultural etiquette 'rules' differ hugely in different countries and different societies, in order to explain why expecting everyone to eat according to strict 19thC English class-based "etiquette rules" is racist (and also ableist and classicist). Having a go at me and trying to cast me as the one being racist simply for pointing out that different cultures have different eating rules and styles is nasty and manipulative.

To answer your question: I would judge anyone going round screaming at disabled people that they're rude and had shit parents as bigots, and would judge anyone insisting their way is the only acceptable way as narrow-minded and unworldly, regardless of what country they're from.

By the way, we also use bread to eat our food. It's called a sandwich.
A sandwich doesn't involve literally using a piece of bread as a fork/spoon.

I am betting you wouldn't go to Japan and start stabbing into your food with chopsticks and then telling any Japanese person who questioned it that it's FIIIIINE
Most Japanese people are too polite to openly judge a Westerner for not knowing how to use chopsticks. That would be considered rude. I can't use chopsticks due to being disabled so I use a fork or spoon instead. I've never encountered any problems during the years I spent in Asia.

we're talking about basic manners.
Holding your knife and fork in the exact hands and in the exact position and manner dictated by some archaic old English poshos is not "basic manners."

paisleybandana · 30/12/2020 13:13

Holding your knife and fork in the exact hands and in the exact position and manner dictated by some archaic old English poshos is not "basic manners."
This.

SinkGirl · 30/12/2020 13:14

[quote FunkBus]@SinkGirl but i was answering a point about eye contact Confused

No one gives a shit about Debretts, we're not talking about taking tea with the queen, we're talking about basic manners.[/quote]
😂

Right, so what “basic manners” does this flout then, holding your cutlery in opposite hands? Absolutely none, based on this thread since nobody has been able to answer. And plenty of people here are talking about this in relation to proper etiquette.

FunkBus · 30/12/2020 13:15

"Oh step off FunkBus. The reason I mentioned Ethiopian food is to make the point that cultural etiquette 'rules' differ hugely in different countries and different societies, in order to explain why expecting everyone to eat according to strict 19thC English class-based "etiquette rules" is racist (and also ableist and classicist). Having a go at me and trying to cast me as the one being racist simply for pointing out that different cultures have different eating rules and styles is nasty and manipulative"

Are you fucking joking? I never accused you of nothing so chill the hell out fgs

froggywentacarolling · 30/12/2020 13:17

So what were you trying to say when you accused me of implying that Ethiopian people have no manners?

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 30/12/2020 13:23

If it's not ok to complain about how people hold their cutlery, why is it ok to say it's rude not to meet someone's eye? That's a massive struggle for many of us (autistic/ADHD/shyness/social anxiety).

One rule for one thing and another for another.

I am betting you wouldn't go to Japan and start stabbing into your food with chopsticks and then telling any Japanese person who questioned it that it's FIIIIINE

I said it’s rude to stare at people’s hands INSTEAD of meeting their eye. I didn’t say that it’s rude to be glancing elsewhere in the room (even momentarily at their hands) or looking down at your own plate, for whatever need/choice/reason you have. My point was that, when you are interacting with fellow diners, you should not be fixated on their hands with a mind to judge them for how they hold their cutlery, if differently from you and thus considering your own desire for self-righteous arbitrary judgment of them and social shaming to be far more important than their comfort and, you know, treating them with respect as a valued individual when you interact with them.

I would certainly hope that a person with a medical or social reason for avoiding eye contact would receive and give respect for who they are, rather than feeling the need to ‘justify’ what does not need to be justified in themselves by turning it into criticism of another person’s needs or comforts. "Yes, I may have social anxiety, but at least I'm not left handed." It’s not a social competition.

I am British and speak as a middle-aged Brit with lifelong experience of British culture. I do not presume to speak for any other nations’ cultures and would, of course, fit in with them or, if I felt I couldn’t, not go there in the first place. As a Brit (and I’m assuming that you are as well?), I don’t accept your beliefs or rules on an acceptable way around for you to hold your cutlery as having any more or less worth than mine for me – or anybody else’s – in our own country and culture. Nobody likes obsessively controlling people.

The big difference is that I am not telling anybody else that their way is wrong; however many British people on this thread are presuming to tell me, a fellow Brit, that my way is categorically wrong in British culture/etiquette/judgmental fault-finding missions or whatever!!. It’s like saying that anybody who doesn’t have the exact same name as you doesn’t actually have a proper valid name at all!

Of course I wouldn’t go to Japan and start stabbing with chopsticks, any more than I would hold a knife by the blade and a fork by the tines in my own country and try to bash at the food and spear it with the blunt end of the utensil. What a bizarre conclusion to reach! We’re talking about holding normal hand-held cutlery in your hands to enable normal dining – anybody would think I’d proposed that we use a trowel and fork from the potting shed with a matching Stanley knife….