My 16yo DS and his girlfriend (and her mum)

[workworkworkugh]

I'm going to write this in point form, I just want to get some other unbiased opinions on my son and his gf of 5 months.
Our point of view is that the relationship is not a healthy one.
We understand that at this age teens start to move away from the family unit but we feel this is above the realms of 'normal'

*she gets mad at him if she doesn't have his full attention.
*she gets mad at him if he hangs out with his mates, so he hasn't hung out with them for 3+ months.
*last time he did she dumped him.
*she cries if he's not at school
*she gets mad at him for playing his Xbox (and not answering her call on the first ring)
*he got a new Xbox for Xmas and she's already making noises about him playing it too much, also about his sport that he loves playing is starting up again soon and she's getting sad about that.
*he spends every single day with her, anywhere from 6-14hours
*it's like he feels guilty if he spends time with us so has to make it up to her
*he can't spend a full day with us as a family, not even Xmas day
*we invite her to our house and to things we're going to but she refuses
*at one point he didn't eat dinner with us for over two weeks as he was with her
*they send literal pages of gushing to each other every single day about how much they love each other and the kids they're going to have 😳
*her mum seems to encourage it (the intensity) which doesn't help
*the Mum, who is 50yo, has texted him (in reply to his messages) "thank you my beautiful James Arthur, you're so adorable" along with a kissy face emoji (not his real name obviously)

We're happy for him to spend time with her and don't stop him much, but it's getting to be too much. We miss him and sometimes want to see him too.
He seems to know it's not right but 'loves her', and I remember young love, we're only in our 30's, so we're happy to be flexible but it still feels very unhealthy to us.
We also don't want to alienate him.

So AIBU and how to we put some boundaries in place, because he clearly doesn't know how to!

I'd be sending him to stay with family and attend counselling there. Can either you or his dad stay with him far away? You might not be able to make him engage with counselling but you can make him go.

No phones, watch him if he is on the laptop.
Keep discussing she told you to kill me. Pursue it with the police, make a formal statement. You need to make life uncomfortable her parents, getting the police to call in to discuss it.

No matter what you do this is going to have a negative lifelong impact on him and his relationships.

The Romeo and Juliet comment is scary. I'd go for the nuclear option while it is an option. At least he will be alive.

I've only read your comments OP, not everyone else's, so apologies if I'm repeating.
This is clearly an abusive relationship and often emotional abuse will escalate to physical abuse. I hope your son will be out of this situation before that happens.
A big problem here is that she is controlling his actions and his thoughts and he will be feeling powerless. So to claim back some sense of control he will take that out on you - his safe place. Allow him to have that element of control to boost his confidence. At 16 you can't stop him seeing her but you can constantly remind him you are always ready for him to come back to in future without judgment or prejudice.
I'm desperately sorry for all of you having to cope with this, but especially him.

www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/recognize-emotionally-abusive-relationships#So-why-is-emotional-abuse-so-hard-to-recognize?

I cannot even imagine the immense stress your family is under. I am surprised at the GP's reaction. My feeling is that all of this is fuelling a drama and chaos that she will thrive on. And putting bans in whilst also allowing them to see each other at the weekend, just adds more to the teenage thrill of the illicit. It really feeds and fuels the fire. I think having gone as far as you have, to allow them contact now is very counter productive. I wouldn't be having any further dialogue with the parents or the girl - you are powerless to change them or get them to come around to your way of thinking. Clearly they both have issues given the offspring they've produced. However you do have control over your reaction snd the way in which you can protect your son. So I wouldn't give in now. I think this could still escalate a lot further - she is capable more than her back chat. Somehow you need to get your son in front of a good therapist. That really is the only way forward. Someone who is not his mum snd who can get him see how emotional abuse starts and how what he is experiencing isn't normal and is damaging him. He sounds incredibly codependent and unfortunately codependency is a learned thing... so breaking out of that pattern will take some work for him. But I agree with the other posters. Zero tolerance and do not allow contact with her. I would ask his friends to stage an intervention and do what you can to get his head back to a place where he is more grounded and not in a highly emotive and triggered space...

I'm so sorry for you and your son.

Such a dreadful situation.

OP I really feel for you. It’s infuriating when authorities aren’t helpful, especially as you have evidence. I would keep trying, and definitely give them a written report as well. In the UK there is an option to do this online - and then they are required to follow up on it - might be worth seeing if this is available in Aus too?
Also in the UK we have cirizens advice - free legal advice - is there something similar you can access in Aus? I find it always helps to Know your rights have the legal argument to back you up when dealing with people who won’t listen.
I would suggest getting heavy with her parents... sending them a legal letter detailing your grievances and making it clear they do not have your permission to pick up your child etc and detail the legal ramifications if they do, I would also talk to the school and tell them under no circumstance should your son be allowed home with this girls parents. Make it clear to them you are willing to fight them on this and will ultimately cause them more trouble than their awful daughter. At the moment they seem to be undermining and minimising your very legitimate concerns and they need to be forced into action.
I would also make it clear, in writing, that their daughter has been threatening suicide and that they have a duty of care to seek help for her.
More controversially I would consider cancelling your sons phone plan and turning off the WiFi. That way you can cut contact without actually having to wrestle the phone off him.
Finally it’s completely understandable that you and your DH will have one point or another flipped out at your son, any parent in your situation would do the same. I wouldn’t give it another thought.

Dear OP .I posted earlier on on your thread and have only just read your updates.We went through a similar awful experience with our son from the age of 15 .What started out as a normal teen romance developed into a nightmare which lasted four years .Our son got to know ' Julia' then aged 14.She seemed like a normal friendly happy girl but about six months into the relationship i noticed that all was not well .Many of the traits and occurrences that you describe also happened between them

Not being allowed to go to his sport which he was passionate about .
If he went she went also and watched and brought him home
No contact with friends allowed
Constant mood changes from being happy one minute and in a boiling screaming rage the next running out of our house with him in hot pursuit with the result that he was constantly walking on eggshells around her.
He was always trying to anticipate her needs , bent over backwards for her , cooked for her all the time which she promptly vomited up into the toilet .
She constantly What's Apped him sometimes all through the night , When that wasn't satisfactory abusive screaming phone calls saying every time he was a loser and without her he was nothing.
Things escalated when she slit her wrists and lay in the bath and called him to come and 'save her'.She was also self harming on a regular basis.Her arms were completely destroyed.
I could go on and on , and like you the parents chose to ignore everything. My husband and I tried in vain for them to get involved and get help for their daughter .They ignored our pleas citing the fact that she was still ' good at school' apparently the best in her class.(my son was not in the same school)
I think her parents were secretly glad that she had turned her attention away from her own family and we as a family were the centre of her attention and abuse .
After the wrist slitting episode she was admitted into a juvenile psychiatric hospital by her mother.When her father found out he went straight to the hospital and had her released.
She started to abuse him physically .I am not too sure how long it went on but he took off his shirt in front of me one day and he was covered in scratches and bruises .Both denied abuse.
In the middle of all this my husband became very ill with a brain tumour and so I was distracted trying to look after him.She saw it as her chance and decided that she was in charge at home and also locked my other younger son out of the house on many occasions .He came into the house to find her semi naked on our living room sofa.
My son started to steal money from me as she expected him to pay for their social life and also made demands for expensive handbags , concert tickets etc.we had stopped giving him money at this point.
I went to Social Services to report her behaviour afraid that she would turn the tables and say that she was the one being abused .I am not living in GB but Child Social Services were of absolutely no help telling me my son 'should man up and get rid of her' .We had on going family mediation throughout this time but I could sense they had no real grasp of the seriousness of the situation and that we were about to loose our son to her.
We contacted a lawyer and got a barring order for us and for our home .I was at home without my husband one afternoon and she tried to enter the house .I told her she was barred and became verbally and physically abusive to me .My son tried to intervene and then struck me also.That was my chance and I called the police .He and she absconded before the police arrived leaving his phone behind.He was missing for a few days staying at her home .I told him he was now on his own and that I was pressing charges against him and her for physical abuse .soon enough her parents got sick of him being at their home and he was sent packing. He had lost all his friends so he had nowhere else to go , no money , no phone. We removed all his means of communication at home and shortly afterwards took him out of school and sent him to my parents , his grandparents for 6 weeks.He was warned that any contact with her I would finalise pressing charges and he would have a criminal record.
A few years have passed since all this happened .My son now 22/23 years repeated the year of school and graduated and is now studying and has his own little place He has definitely changed as a person through the experience and the abuse .He was such a happy, carefree and oh so kind lad.Sometimes I think he bears the weight of the world on his shoulders now .He has refused to go to counselling.
He has a new girlfriend .She was kept a secret from us for about six months but has started bringing her home to us for the last few months She seems lovely .Open and most importantly not hysterical and complicated.His ex on the other hand is not doing too well in life but I honestly do not want to know anything more about her or her parents for that matter.

I think taking your lad out odfschool for a few weeks and also going to the GP for a sick note for yourself would be a good idea. Then go far away for a few weeks together. Even if you have to pretend to him its only for a day trip. You then need to find ways to de programme him. Its almost like he has been in a cult. He simply isn't thinking straight.

Oh @schnubbins 🥺 my heart is breaking reading your story. Your poor family, I really hope your DS gets some counselling at some stage to help him deal with this - I can't imagine the impact this must have had on him at such a young age.

@schnubbins you poor, poor thing. I can't even begin to imagine how horrific this all was for your family

Sounds like a domestic abuse situation

I remember my friend (female) had a relationship like this at age 16-18. She nearly lost all her friends from it. Fortunately we had been friends from 5yrs ago but she did act bad. On the rare occasion her BF was busy she would ring me, but rarely came out as he didn’t like it. We went from being together all the time to rarely see each other. She did learn some lessons from that relationship and never did it again. This is how many people lose friends. He’s so young he should be having a balance of being with his girlfriend but also playing sports, seeing his friends, spending time with family. It sounds like he is being completely controlled and it’s not healthy. I assume you couldn’t have a chat with the girls mum? Maybe without going in and saying your daughter is controlling but from point of view they need to see their friends and enjoy hobbies so could both parents have a word kind of thing? I would be worried if this was my son. He is also 16 but hasn’t had a girlfriend yet and I think I’m glad of that

Thank you both @RonSwansonsChair and @shesellsesshells123. It's just a synopsis of what happened so therefore feel so for the Op as I had and still have the feeling that those of us with sons are completely left alone in dealing with abuse when it comes from the female side .I was unable to get help anywhere and I tried everything.I had the added difficulty in that my husband was suffering from a massive brain tumour and there again he was told he was suffering from burnout /depression and was also told to pull himself together.I had to give up work in order to be at home .Everything was in chaos.My husband is well again after a 11 hour operation where I brought him to hospital in the middle of the night and insisted on an MRI. We are five years post op now and he is doing well.but my son will always bear the scars of this girl that he loved so much. She has ruined everything .For him and for us.

Kids learn behaviour from their parents - you mentioned the dad raising his voice - after the messages you showed him, this is a weird reaction - I wonder which parent taught their daughter (unknowingly) how to control the other parent - is this why they split I wonder?

They need your son in their daughters life as she probably has no friends whatsoever and they're using him OP.

Can you arrange for a counsellor to come to your house - keep it breezy with DS "they're just coming round to check everything is okay and to chat to me as well as you" kind of thing to open the discourse - I really do feel it's at the vital stage now where an 'outsider/stranger' needs to put everything on the table and prove the 'black and white' to your son - he needs a situation with his gf reversed - like suggesting how he'd react if his dad stopped you working, stopped you going out, texted "where the F are you, you're dumped" everytime you went to the supermarket etc. have you tried turning the tables for him?

@Darbs76 click on the 'see all' at the bottom of the OP - she's done more than speak to the mum already, months ago and more recently, with the whole group involved.

schnubbins your story is heartbreaking, I am so sorry. I am so glad your husband made a recovery so well.

I don't think that the school would encroach with this awful situation, unless it has become apparent, that her behaviour shows that she has some kind of mental problems going on. But she may well act normal at school.

Her home life, and Mother seems to be the biggest issue here. Not much attention from the Mother, and so has developed a way to find love and attention from elsewhere, which has somehow made her Mother happy, as she now has no guilt about her daughter feeling alone, and accepts anything that her daughter wishes to do now.

The daughter who has now found a lad, who has been taken in by the girl, will now won't let him go, and this has now turned into control and abuse, and she has now become obsessed with your son, and has a fear of not having anyone in her life again.

I would not know, how to stop your son seeing this girl, as you never know how teenage minds work sometimes, and how they would react if a parent intervened in their life at this age,

@1forAll74 - depends a lot on the school principal. My son's high school, the principal would DEFINITELY get involved over this. Other high schools, not so much. The OP may not be in NSW, or her son may not be in a state school (we only started school today, not yesterday, but the non-state schools went back yesterday), and their rules and guidelines might be different - but really it does come down to how much the Principal wants to do. Our man is 100% against any kind of cyberbullying, cybercrime or anything of that kind and comes down HARD on anyone engaging in it.

If they go to the same school then contact the school. We see this a lot and have ways of dealing with it.

@1forAll74

I don't think that the school would encroach with this awful situation, unless it has become apparent, that her behaviour shows that she has some kind of mental problems going on. But she may well act normal at school.

Her home life, and Mother seems to be the biggest issue here. Not much attention from the Mother, and so has developed a way to find love and attention from elsewhere, which has somehow made her Mother happy, as she now has no guilt about her daughter feeling alone, and accepts anything that her daughter wishes to do now.

The daughter who has now found a lad, who has been taken in by the girl, will now won't let him go, and this has now turned into control and abuse, and she has now become obsessed with your son, and has a fear of not having anyone in her life again.

I would not know, how to stop your son seeing this girl, as you never know how teenage minds work sometimes, and how they would react if a parent intervened in their life at this age,

I'm a teacher and the three schools I worked in would 100% get involved. This is a safeguarding issue covered in red flags. If it's not abusive already then it's heading in that direction, it's definitely not healthy.

[quote ThumbWitchesAbroad]@1forAll74 - depends a lot on the school principal. My son's high school, the principal would DEFINITELY get involved over this. Other high schools, not so much. The OP may not be in NSW, or her son may not be in a state school (we only started school today, not yesterday, but the non-state schools went back yesterday), and their rules and guidelines might be different - but really it does come down to how much the Principal wants to do. Our man is 100% against any kind of cyberbullying, cybercrime or anything of that kind and comes down HARD on anyone engaging in it.[/quote]
I’m fairly certain OP said they go to a private fee paying school earlier on in one of her posts. I’m sure they would definitely want to be involved.

@Italiangreyhound thank you so much .I appreciate the empathy and concern .It was such an awful time .So much happened and that what really haunts me now was the fact that I had nowhere to turn .That feeling of helplessness in seeing your son being abused physically and mentally by a girl who looks like butter wouldn't melt in her mouth. She has now moved on to bigger and better things .I hope I never have to lay eyes on her again nor her parents for that matter.

@TulipSandwiches. Yes boss 🤣🤣

There's a new thread about this.

@TeeniefaeTroon

There's a new thread about this.

Can I ask for a link or title please?

My 16yo DS and his girlfriend (Part 2) http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/4223467-my-16yo-ds-and-his-girlfriend-part-2