My 16yo DS and his girlfriend (and her mum)

[workworkworkugh]

I'm going to write this in point form, I just want to get some other unbiased opinions on my son and his gf of 5 months.
Our point of view is that the relationship is not a healthy one.
We understand that at this age teens start to move away from the family unit but we feel this is above the realms of 'normal'

*she gets mad at him if she doesn't have his full attention.
*she gets mad at him if he hangs out with his mates, so he hasn't hung out with them for 3+ months.
*last time he did she dumped him.
*she cries if he's not at school
*she gets mad at him for playing his Xbox (and not answering her call on the first ring)
*he got a new Xbox for Xmas and she's already making noises about him playing it too much, also about his sport that he loves playing is starting up again soon and she's getting sad about that.
*he spends every single day with her, anywhere from 6-14hours
*it's like he feels guilty if he spends time with us so has to make it up to her
*he can't spend a full day with us as a family, not even Xmas day
*we invite her to our house and to things we're going to but she refuses
*at one point he didn't eat dinner with us for over two weeks as he was with her
*they send literal pages of gushing to each other every single day about how much they love each other and the kids they're going to have 😳
*her mum seems to encourage it (the intensity) which doesn't help
*the Mum, who is 50yo, has texted him (in reply to his messages) "thank you my beautiful James Arthur, you're so adorable" along with a kissy face emoji (not his real name obviously)

We're happy for him to spend time with her and don't stop him much, but it's getting to be too much. We miss him and sometimes want to see him too.
He seems to know it's not right but 'loves her', and I remember young love, we're only in our 30's, so we're happy to be flexible but it still feels very unhealthy to us.
We also don't want to alienate him.

So AIBU and how to we put some boundaries in place, because he clearly doesn't know how to!

@Acs07

Well. I speak from working in social services for years. I'm not placing blame or guilty. But there is a way of acknowledgement and a way of thinking you've done your best. As parents we all think we do our best but it's beyond actions. It's a case of reassurance and love love acceptance. To be loved within and within a family, means you won't seek acceptance elsewhere. It's a personal testimony. If you are judging, you are judging a traumatic experience lived.

Were you the Janitor? As a child care social worker with 20 years experience I would be horrified if a qualified social worker presented me with such codswallop. This answer isn’t helping the OP at all.

Unfortunately, young love is passionate and painful and teenagers don’t usually have the emotional maturity to cope when things go wrong. The OP is doing the right thing in trying to limit contact and standing in her son’s corner to support him and carry him through the worst of it.

Threats to kill or an incitement to kill should always be taken seriously. Unfortunately it isn’t unheard of for a young person (usually the male) being asked to prove his love by killing someone. I’m retired now so I can say this without caution, this young lady sounds dangerous and completely unhinged. She needs help and her parents need to grow up and learn how to parent their child.

Good luck OP. Try the police again but make sure you put it in writing with copies of the messages attached. Be warned, the often quoted view amongst professionals is that if it isn’t in writing it hasn’t happened. Cover yourself. You are doing the right thing.

Agree with @Branleuse and you @GeneParmesanPrivateEye

I'm not sure that there is anything parents can SAY to make teenagers caught up in this dynamic see sense. They are too young and too full of emotions and hormones to see the big picture normally.

Distance and separation does work, but not easy to do.

You will also have a lot of people who minimise - oh it's just a teenage romance, it will fizzle out etc

I would try the police and school again, to be honest, and the restraining order and make them take it seriously. These things are rare but not unknown - I can think of three off the top of my head where "star-crossed lovers" killed parents who were perceived as standing in their way, like Elizabeth Haysom in the 1980s, the Johnson murders in 2003, and the Richardson murders in Canada.

I'm so sorry OP - what a complete nightmare

We have Medicare in Australia, by the way.
Just so you know.

And yeah, the police are often crap with this sort of thing - as I said before, they're far more REactive than PROactive when it comes to DV/DA.

But I think it's worth pushing. I'm making an assumption that the OP is in NSW, she may well not be, but www.police.nsw.gov.au/crime/domestic_and_family_violence this might prove useful. Apparently there are Police DV Liaison officers - might be worth trying to talk to one of those.

And I hope the school were more forthcoming - try to talk to the Wellbeing team as well as the Principal because this is definitely causing grief to your son, and they should know about it.

I can’t believe I’m asking this, but did you go to the police alone? Would they take it more seriously from your husband?

I am wonder if he sees that hysteria works for the gf so does he try that? If he wants to act like that then I wonder if having a mate temporarily move in would calm him down. Do you know any of his mates parents well enough that you could conduct a reason why they need to come and stay for a weekend to try and bring the old him back? I can’t imagine he would have a tantrum with a friend there.

Sounds similar to the Alex Skeel case to me. Young love to controlling girlfriend to him alienated from his family and nearly dead from the abuse at 22. There's a documentary he made which can be found on YouTube which is really insightful. She's now in prison and he has custody of their two young children.

@workworkworkugh

Things have not gone to plan. Yesterday was a complete nightmare, I need to get my other kids ready for their first day back at school today, but I will be back later once I have gathered my thoughts.

In a nutshell:
Police a bit lacking
Son loves her and only wants her to the point he was hysterical
Her parents are morons and we feel basically shrugged it off as teenage relationships and are trying desperately to fix their relationship and keep them together.

I am speaking to the school today even though DS has asked me not to tell them the full story (I will be telling them every single detail)

I truly appreciate the support, after yesterday I actually am struggling and feel like I can't do it anymore. I've literally been sick with stress.

Some people say I have been measured and calm (thank you) but if I'm being completely honest, there have been times I, and DH, have absolutely flipped out at DS, we're not proud, we know it it's not right, it's out of pure frustration.

Re. Flipping out at your son, you're a human being, I would expect you to flip out at some point.

Please be kind to yourself, I know you're so worried about your son, but please remember that you're going through hell too.

I hope this nightmare is over soon and this young girl gets some serious help

Great response @Devpatelslaughingeyes! I I went to a professional for help and was told “a hug it out” claptrap, I would walk out and refuse to pay, stating that they were lazy of policy and bloody negligent.
The police in Aus are under-funded, under-resourced, under-staffed, under-supported, under-trained and completely unmotivated to get off their butts at the moment. They have form for being underwhelming when it comes to first approaches, unfortunately - especially from women requesting help. I agree that asking for their names and ID numbers, stating that you have asked for assistance and been refused and wish to put it on record, and feel that your fears are being minimised is the only thing to do. Especially if you are capable of remaining calm. (Bloody hard.)

STOP USING STAR-CROSSED LOVERS TO DESCRIBE TEENAGERS! Romeo and Juliet was not a great romance, it was a tragic bloodbath that could have been avoided at many stages in the play.

@workworkworkugh HAS repeatedly taken a step back to avoid losing her son and this has ended up with the teenage girl in total control of two family’s lives and now threatening to end hers. I think it’s time to change tactics, don’t you??? Softly, softly really isn’t working.

Oh, and to the Americans, we have Medicare here in Australia. Every Australian citizen has the right to free emergency medical care. This also covers things like most cancer treatments, etc. Pretty cool, huh? We also have subsidized medicines, so that most prescribed medication costs between $8 & $15 depending on what you need. Rather lucky. Unfortunately our evil, Hillsong-led government is determined to erode that system at the moment. 💩

This will be a long one guys, grab a cuppa...I have read through all the comments from today, it's just been a lot to process but thought I'd give an update on what's been happening.

We went to the police station and they were shocked at the msg and said we could get a restraining order on our sons behalf but he didn't recommend that as the first port of call as if DS didn't want it then he would just ignore it basically, it was best to come from DS and of course he refused.

I spoke to a GP today who listened and while understood our concern ended by saying we can't control our DS as it will ruin our relationship and sometimes we just need to let him make his own mistakes.
We did get some numbers for counselling services in our area that don't need referrals as it's more 'walk in' so we can access them quicker.
I don't think DS is open to the idea but will try.

Last night we spoke to her parents with her and DS present. I asked her, kindly, what the problem is as I was completely in the dark, she stood up and said "yep I have a whole long list with dates and times"
it was the issue that I apparently insulted her friends (mentioned in an earlier post)
That I didn't thank her when she made DS birthday cake and she spent a lot of money on it (I did thank her and so did our visitors at the time, we thanked her at the time and I also have messages)
That same night I apparently sat at the only seat available at the table and she had to sit at the bench on a stool (with DS) and it made her feel extremely uncomfortable and unwelcome.

She later on, showed her true colours when she said a smart arse comment about using other boys to get at DS, our DS then stood up and calmly called her out on her lie right there in front of everyone. I was so proud of him, I just wish he'd said more, but he said his piece.

She had a go at me about why I hadn't had his hip fixed yet (minor injury and growing pain issues) I explained we had already taken him to multiple appointments and tried to do more for him but he refuses to go as he's scared of her reaction.

Her parents completely glossed over the "just kill your mum and we can be happy" message.
They told them they just need to communicate better and they will work things out.
In relation to one of their comments I said I don't want them to be together at all and the dad started raising his voice at me.
I am not sending DS to school all week and I can only assume she won't be there either. We took DS phone off him but are now giving him limited use to speak to his friends for support and her parents have taken her phone off her completely.
She is going to seek counselling apparently.
Her parents could see some of her behaviour is not right but seem hellbent on keeping them together, beats me why, I said to all of them that relationships at this age shouldn't be that hard and it's abusive. I think the parents know she wouldn't find anyone else to put up with her so THEY don't want her to lose DS.

I spoke to the school and they were appreciative that i told them everything and her name. They are working to get DS some work experience ASAP so he might be out of school longer to gain some experience in a trade for a few weeks, which is what DS wants to do but hasn't as she gets upset if he's not at school with her.

I told the parents alone that were concerned she will get pregnant and they still didn't believe they've had sex, And we're also concerned about a Romeo and Juliet situation.
They also never asked to see any of the nasty messages that have been sent from her.

There's obviously a lot more to the whole conversation but that's a super condensed version.
I'm done though. He's hellbent on seeing her at the weekend, so DH and I have decided to let them be, give them whatever they want, pretty much she 'wins'.
We are positive that even with her getting her way 100% of the time she will still find something to be mad at him about (which is what we've told him in the past) and she will fuck it up herself eventually, DS will hopefully see through her at that point and then I can't be blamed for anything.

I don't believe there is any true threat to my life and her parents seem to be delusional and think that we can both work on things so that she feels comfortable in our house again (ha!) they will be getting told that she is no longer welcome in our home or near DS brothers.
Yes it might hurt our relationship with DS, he might not have any boundaries but we do and she will not ever step foot inside our house again.

Sorry if I haven't answered any direct questions.
This sounds so made up and exaggerated I'm worried people don't believe me, I have the proof, just obviously don't want to post on here as I could already be recognised easily and I'm worried about getting into trouble for posting a teenagers conversations.

I wish I had pointed out to the parents that if it was DS sending messages like that to her he would have had the police on our doorstep and charges laid.
I'm sure if this was reversed they would be telling their daughter to stay away from DS at all costs.

I will also be telling the parents that she is to stop mentioning me on social media etc as she has been doing (again all lies) and if there are ever any messages to DS again about me we will be going straight to the police for a restraining order for myself.

@KatieMarina

Hard one but unfortunately I'd say most teenage relationships are toxic and a lot of teenage girls act this way. They're young and don't understand how to handle their emotions. Her feeling jealous and wanting his undivided attention is a normal teenage thing. They're still kids. I'd stay away from trying to tell him what to do too much but just keep trying to build him up, let him know he's got the right to make his own decisions. Explain emotional manipulation to him, tell him what she's doing is to control him and that's only going to get worse, not better. Chances are he won't change his mind, he's young and in love. But be there for him the right way. No teenager has ever seen the light by their parents repeating themselves over and over.

Try reading the OP,'s posts if you can't be arsed to read the thread.

You might not miss the point quite so spectacularly then

Blimey, such a shame that it hasn't been managed appropriately my her parents or police, but the school seem great, hopefully this work experience will be a massive boost for your DS and help him feel some inedpendence.

Thanks so much for the update OP, I have been thinking of you.

What a completely mad headfuck of a situation!

It sounds as though you have managed to resolve things as best you can, which is no mean feat given all the jokers in the hand you've been dealt.

Great news that your son called her out. That means part of him, at least, must be aware that something's not right. Given time, let's hope he gains more awareness that he will eventually act on.

Or, with any luck, her counsellor will just lock her up and throw away the key 😂 Wouldn't that be nice!!!

Take care OP and well done Hope things calm down a bit for you now.

You are right, of course, about the reverse situation.

And you are right, you can't stop him from seeing her and the more you protest the closer they will be.

I am impressed with the way you are handling this. I am concerned that her parents see little cause for concern.

@workworkworkugh

I wish I had pointed out to the parents that if it was DS sending messages like that to her he would have had the police on our doorstep and charges laid. I'm sure if this was reversed they would be telling their daughter to stay away from DS at all costs.

I will also be telling the parents that she is to stop mentioning me on social media etc as she has been doing (again all lies) and if there are ever any messages to DS again about me we will be going straight to the police for a restraining order for myself.

I think pointing that out to her parents (if roles were reversed) is a good idea, and it's not too late to do so. XXX

I think you should get the restraining order, why wait for things to escalate further. It's time someone acknowledged how serious this is, I don't understand why everybody is doing what this teen girl wants with no hesitation. She is threatening suicide, abusing your son and telling him to kill you, what will it take for people to stop hand wringing and act, just stop speaking to her parents too, they are motivated by self interest pleasing her for an easy life.

Why an earth are you letting him see her at the weekend? Big no surely? I cant believe the parents dont care about incitement to murder, jesus.

Honestly I would love to know what your DS thinks about that? What has he said to you about it? I would be so hurt and bloody livid if he glossed over it.

I think you have handled remarkably well but probably time to step it up, keep them apart at all costs is my advice. She is sp unhinged it is terrifying.

I think that the approach you’ve taken now is perfect, you’ve stated your case, and you have a plan for if when this escalates

Speak to her parents again, tell them what the situation is

Ask them what they would do if your ds was telling her to kill them?

Their daughter needs help. Now. And there IS plenty of help available. Her very life is at risk here. The threats to kill herself will become attempts when she gets dumped or when her manipulative methods stop working

At the moment he's in thrall to this girl, scared to even attend medical appts because of how she gets. I'm assuming also he has exams coming up (or at least some sort of assessment) that her and her drama will massively impact. How will she cope with him revising for instance?

Her parents seem to desperately want him as a buffet. You quite rightly want her to fottfsof. Is there any merit in 'trying to compromise. Maybe suggest to DS that if they're meant to be etc they will after time apart that enables them both to get counselling/take exams/etc. That way it's not permanent sounding to him. The hope being that he will then engage in counselling and have the space to see more clearly.

What I meant to continue to say was don’t even blink about following through with scaling this up, with getting a restraining order etc etc

DS is 15? Where is safeguarding a minor from her abuse in this?

Im amazed at the control has over everyone around her. Her parents Your Son.. even you to a degree OP.

She controls everything thanks to the rules of politeness we as a society adhere too, she follows no such rules, hence she says whatever she wants and gets away with it.

Its horrible and I fear she will be pregnant soon too OP.

Im so sorry, you sound an amazing Mum.

It sounds like her parents know she is unwell but the distraction of your DS means she might be better at home etc.

She definitely sounds unwell and needs professional help I would urge her parents to seek a psychiatrist not counselling sessions.

Hi OP, I’ve been following your thread since you first posted. I’m so sorry for what you and your boy are going through.

However, I do think it’s very positive that you’ve taken a firm stance in terms of not tolerating any of her behaviours towards you- I.e planning to obtain a restraining order if she continues to speak about you on social media etc. This is good for your DS to be observing.

Another thing, this may be unhelpful to you- but maybe have a look at the Safe and Together Model. It’s an approach/model for professionals who work with families (so an adult relationship with children present) where domestic abuse is present. It may be unhelpful because there’s a lot of focus on the child and safeguarding. However, it’s interesting for you to see the principles of components of the model. I use it a lot in my work. There’s a lot of “safety planning” involved. This may be something you might want to explore with your son given that he’s not prepared to end the relationship.

If I was you I might approach it in a way that you’re very clear this is an unhealthy and abusive relationship (which you have done) and that whilst you would prefer him not to be in this relationship it’s his choice to do so. However, that doesn’t mean that your relationship with him has to deteriorate (which is what she wants I assume) so it might be useful to go through particular situations and talk about what his plan would be.

It’s incredibly disappointing that the police responded to you in that way.