My 16yo DS and his girlfriend (and her mum)

[workworkworkugh]

I'm going to write this in point form, I just want to get some other unbiased opinions on my son and his gf of 5 months.
Our point of view is that the relationship is not a healthy one.
We understand that at this age teens start to move away from the family unit but we feel this is above the realms of 'normal'

*she gets mad at him if she doesn't have his full attention.
*she gets mad at him if he hangs out with his mates, so he hasn't hung out with them for 3+ months.
*last time he did she dumped him.
*she cries if he's not at school
*she gets mad at him for playing his Xbox (and not answering her call on the first ring)
*he got a new Xbox for Xmas and she's already making noises about him playing it too much, also about his sport that he loves playing is starting up again soon and she's getting sad about that.
*he spends every single day with her, anywhere from 6-14hours
*it's like he feels guilty if he spends time with us so has to make it up to her
*he can't spend a full day with us as a family, not even Xmas day
*we invite her to our house and to things we're going to but she refuses
*at one point he didn't eat dinner with us for over two weeks as he was with her
*they send literal pages of gushing to each other every single day about how much they love each other and the kids they're going to have 😳
*her mum seems to encourage it (the intensity) which doesn't help
*the Mum, who is 50yo, has texted him (in reply to his messages) "thank you my beautiful James Arthur, you're so adorable" along with a kissy face emoji (not his real name obviously)

We're happy for him to spend time with her and don't stop him much, but it's getting to be too much. We miss him and sometimes want to see him too.
He seems to know it's not right but 'loves her', and I remember young love, we're only in our 30's, so we're happy to be flexible but it still feels very unhealthy to us.
We also don't want to alienate him.

So AIBU and how to we put some boundaries in place, because he clearly doesn't know how to!

There are so many ways this could play out
She gets pregnant and they move in together
Probably in one of her parents houses, or your ds sleeps/doesn’t sleep with her and if he doesn’t do as she says she calls the police on him as she is underage or a joint suicide pact that she does or doesn’t go ahead with.
Unfortunately a few years ago I read of 2 teens who ran up a track towards a speeding train because they thought they couldn’t be together.
This girl sounds completely deranged and agree the parents are only pushing her and your son together because she would be off their hands and someone else’s problem.
I don’t think she would harm herself so for her parents they really aren’t that bothered but I can see her getting off on the fact a bf killed himself because he wasn’t allowed to see her and it being punishment for you because of the “awful” things you have done.

She is definitely warped

This is appalling OP. You must be distraught.

So even in the same room, having her comments of ‘being made to feel unwelcome’ being proven as lies - her parents aren’t arsed? They think it’s normal to both threaten suicide and incite your boyfriend to murder his mother?!
They’re not in the slightest bit bothered that this girl seems quite dangerously unhinged?

I can understand why your son can’t - he’s a teen in his first relationship, lacking experience and insight he’s in thrall. But what positive to they seem for them being together? Seriously?

Our Dd was in a toxic relationship late teens, The partner did something I felt was beyond the pale and crossed a boundary. So when they got back together again the next day I told DD that whilst she was welcome to set her own boundaries in relationships. I had some of my own and I wouldn't stand for anyone who committed that sort of behavior in my home and they weren't allowed on the property again. It fizzled out a month later thankfully

Their life is easier with your DS takeing her flack - don’t let that out of your sight

I don’t think meeting the parents and putting those two in a room together with you both was a good idea, if I’m honest. This is way beyond - it diminishes the call to kill you - and all it does is continue to feed communication in some form.

Sorry I know you are navigating a very tricky situation but from the outside - maybe seeing it from a outside perspective - when I saw your update that you’d met with the parents I wanted to scream Nooooo!

He’s 15. She’s asked him to kill you. He’s under your duty of care. You end it. Absolutely and completely end it. He has no phone, no computer, switch off the internet if you have to, keep tabs on him, go away for a bit, get the police (why on earth can’t you get a restraining order - a bit weak that they think ‘but he won’t stick to it’ so what? You get it as then she will be breaking it.)

He’s 15. It’s not up to him. He’s a child. It’s up to you.

This keeps making me think of that film “Heavenly Creatures” where teen Kate Winslet is incited by her girlfriend to kill her mother so they can be free to be together. That was based on a true story. I’m surprised that you let the parents just “gloss over” the incitement to kill you. I don’t mean that you should necessarily feel that there is any real risk to your life but it goes beyond normal levels of teen relationship angst.

Also, I am kind of aghast at the way that this girl feels that she has a right to demand certain standards of behaviour from you - talk about an entitled little madam.

Honestly no I wouldn’t do this that whilst you would prefer him not to be in this relationship it’s his choice to do so. Please don’t do this.

Of course you can put down a firm line and say no, no way. I’d do this to any person who had asked them to kill me, young or old. I would be saying to them it’s their choice. I’d say that this is dangerous, this has crossed a line, I’d get a restraining order now (why wait for more social media? Why even access or looking at social media? She’s asked him to kill you! What could be worse than that?)

Hopefully nothing terrible will happen, but the warning signs are there and the police have minimised it, GP has minimised it, so that you are also being kind of also going along with a soft approach and continuation and allowing contact between them.

Many on this thread including a social worker have pointed out that this does look dangerous, potentially dangerous, and also emotionally abusive even if nothing physical happens. So a really hard approach is the way to go - make up your son’s mind for him and monitor him really closely. He’s still your child in your care, so you can. It would be much harder if he was even a bit older, but he isn’t so you have a window of opportunity here to really be firm.

Maybe you will get the opportunity to ask how they’d feel if your ds said he wanted to kill them at a later stage. I would word it like this as it’s actually what she meant.

I see you are letting your ds see her at the weekend. Perhaps you could address this with her parents when you set some ground rules. And I would set them with her parents. You could perhaps ask them what ground rules they’d put in place if it was your ds, who had done the threatening.

I have a DS who is a similar age and I feel for you. It is such a difficult situation. Trying to look at it from the girl's parents' point of view, I wonder if they are worried about what will happen if there is a break up? If the girl has a crying fit when he isn't at school she probably isn't strong enough to cope with that and the parents are afraid of the fall out, not that this should be your problem. It is such an unhealthy relationship and in your shoes I would be doing everything I could to give him time away from her. Any events to do with his sport that you could go and watch for a weekend? Preferably in another town or city?

I posted too soon. What I really should have said is in your position, I am not sure if I would be ok with allowing your ds to see her. I know he’s 16. It’s tricky. He’s being abused. Your priority should be counselling. Would he show up to therapy if you booked it and he hadn’t agreed?

Sorry 16 not 15 oops. Still stands though. You can still put your foot down and you should - he’s your child living in your care. He’s not an adult with his own home.

Your son is her only chance of a good partner. Either someone won't put up with her shit, or they'll give as good as they get.

I think getting him in regular councelling is a good idea, really stick with that and don't let him avoid going. Having someone not involved explain why it's unhealthy should really help him.

Just to clarify to a couple of posters, DS is 16, So that means we can encourage him to go to counselling, but we have no authority over making him attend.
He can also leave home etc and we can't do a thing about it.

If I force the separation I fear they will do something they can't take back.
I'm very fearful of her falling pregnant and have said to DS to keep that in mind in the future if she feels like she's losing control again.
Her parents aren't our allies, they did pull her up on some of her behaviours but are also still encouraging them to work it out so they can be together.

DS asked if we could all sit down together on the weekend, after their week apart, I guess to reassess things was his view.
He seems to want to forget her threat, and that hurts a lot.

This must be hellish, my heart goes out to you.

I don't mean to worry you but please don't assume letting them see each other will result in them splitting up.

I was with a boyfriend who didn't treat me well for 8 years, from the age of 15. We did split eventually, but my lenghty association with him seriously affected my self esteem.

I think pregnancy is a serious worry here.

DS asked if we could all sit down together on the weekend, after their week apart, I guess to reassess things was his view.

That sounds encouraging, at least he's communicating with you.

We had them in the room while we were talking as I wanted her to say in front of everyone what her problem was so I could call her out on her lies, and so she couldn't lie to DS or her parents about it later, it was all out in the open, with witnesses.

Your comment about a Romeo and Juliet situation really stands out. In a way, I'd rather have them in the house with me, for that reason. At that age any emotional conflict is so very huge and dramatic, I am worried for him. My heart goes out to you, I can't imagine how you are coping.

I agree, the response from your DS does sound encouraging. He probably feels he is stuck in the middle and wants to keep everyone happy. Is there a lads only activity you could arrange for him to do with his friends? Some peer support may be good for him a well as some time away from the GF.

I wonder if your DS would like some help with setting boundaries in his relationship with the GF? He doesn't seem to upset at not seeing her this week, only with her reaction to this. His comment about wanting to have a meeting to assess where the situation is seems very mature. I wonder if he feels a bit trapped and wants to spend more time with his friends and family but doesn't know how to achieve this without upsetting her?

Whatever else you do, drum into him that if he does have sex with her to always wear a condom. It doesn’t matter if she says she’s on contraception, he needs to know he must always, always use one. And preferably keep the box on him so she can’t tamper with them. The absolute last thing he needs is for her to get pregnant but I wouldn’t be surprised if that will be her next plan to ‘keep’ him, and I imagine if (when) they do split and he tries to have contact with a child she will make it a total nightmare for him. Plus with a shared child he would be tied to her in some way forever. Fingers crossed he comes to his senses soon. She sounds a very dangerous, spoilt little madam who has never dealt with not getting her own way.

Can he go away on some sort of boarding summer camp/apprenticeship somewhere???

@workworkworkugh

We had them in the room while we were talking as I wanted her to say in front of everyone what her problem was so I could call her out on her lies, and so she couldn't lie to DS or her parents about it later, it was all out in the open, with witnesses.

I haven't read anyone else's posts, OP, but it's worth bearing in mind that there's almost certainly a link between the girl's behaviour, and her parents not taking things seriously. Seldom do you get borderline behaviour without some severe form of family-based dysfunction - so her parents will have little insight or ability to change things, and may well turn on you.

I can't believe her parents are being so passive over this. Unfortunately I think you are right, it might all seem crazy to the rest of us, but your DS is definitely making their lives easier.

OP you commented how you don't understand why the parents want to keep the kids together. I wonder if they are done with their daughter's behavior and want her gone so someone else can deal with . Too bad your son was the one she picked.

Started a new thread in case this one fills up overnight.

My 16yo DS and his girlfriend (Part 2) http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/4223467-my-16yo-ds-and-his-girlfriend-part-2