To ask about JK Rowling - can someone tell me what happened?

[christmaspigeon]

Just that really. I like her. I like how she gives so much for charity and how she put Trump in his place, but I know people's views on her have changed. Something to do with trans comments?? Can someone explain (in really simple language!) what happened? Thank you!

Saying that only women is neither bitchy nor unnecessary. She's talking about biological fact. Only women menstruate no matter how they personally identify.

But ultimately, that's not women's problem to sort out? Why should women have to give up their single sex facilities, that they like having, and have them made unisex, because some men aren't comfortable with other males who don't fit a certain definition of masculinity? Leave women out of it.

You are putting words into my mouth. The poster was asking why trans women are scared to use men's facilities if men were nothing to be afraid of. I am pointing out that it doesn't mean they are afraid of men. It is more likely to be because they will be hassled for being in the wrong facilities. Transmen use men's facilities and no one argues that is because women are something to be afraid of.

cannot take the identity of women away by letting transgender women enter into women-only spaces, sports and research.

So is JKR saying that trans women, including those going/ gone through an NHS/ medical transition should not be using women’s toilets?

I think she needs to clarify this.

I thought her comment that people who menstruate are all women was actually quite bitchy and unnecessary and I know it upset a lot of transmen
How is it bitchy to highlight a biological fact? Can you think of any example where the menstruated wasn’t a woman?
Also, how about that 50% part of the population that menstruates and has not identified as a man? You don’t feel it’s bitchy to call them menstruators?

See how would men feel if We start calling them wankers because they do tend to wank from about puberty onwards? So we’re they non-wankers before puberty and became wankers after that? What were they before becoming wankers?

Or, aren’t all of us are poopers? I mean we poop from the day we are born yo the day we die? This word might actually be universally acceptable to everyone (though some dead people might feel aggrieved because we do lose control of bodily functions once we die; but you might argue that is not pooping technically).

So what are we then?

@Whiskandfettle

cannot take the identity of women away by letting transgender women enter into women-only spaces, sports and research.

So is JKR saying that trans women, including those going/ gone through an NHS/ medical transition should not be using women’s toilets?

I think she needs to clarify this.

No, she didn't say this. She was talking about the ramifications of self-id (though she did highlight that even now it's possible to get a GRC without making physical changes), and I don't think she mentioned toilets or changing rooms.

I thought her comment that people who menstruate are all women was actually quite bitchy and unnecessary and I know it upset a lot of transmen.

Pointing out the increasing erasure of the word 'woman' from society is 'bitchy and unnecessary'?

It upsets me to be referred to as a fucking 'bleeder' or 'birthing parent' but no one seems to give a shit about that because I am just a bog standard woman, whose feelings and opinions are 'bitchy' if I dare to air them.

The nerve of JKR wanting to be referred to as a 'woman' eh? Whaddabitch

Can anyone please let me know why can’t we call men wankers or all humanity poopers?
Defining people by their bodily functions is becoming the new norm, eh?

I thought her comment that people who menstruate are all women was actually quite bitchy and unnecessary and I know it upset a lot of transmen.

We obviously define "unnecessary" differently. Female erasure upsets me. The people you talk of are female, whether they like it or not. I do not wish to be referred to as a "menstruator".

How is it bitchy to highlight a biological fact?

Look up the meaning of bitchy.

Can you think of any example where the menstruated wasn’t a woman?

I don't see the relevance to my point.

We obviously define "unnecessary" differently. Female erasure upsets me. The people you talk of are female, whether they like it or not. I do not wish to be referred to as a "menstruator".

And trans men do not wish to be referred to as women. There was no need to do it.

@Whiskandfettle

cannot take the identity of women away by letting transgender women enter into women-only spaces, sports and research.

So is JKR saying that trans women, including those going/ gone through an NHS/ medical transition should not be using women’s toilets?

I think she needs to clarify this.

Define 'transwomen' in this sentence please. And also what you mean by 'medical transition'. 80% of transwomen keep their penis.

And 'women only spaces' does not just mean 'toilets', it means prisons, refuges, communal changing rooms, women only hospital wards etc.

including those going/ gone through an NHS/ medical transition

What's an "NHS medical transition"?

No, she didn't say this. She was talking about the ramifications of self-id (though she did highlight that even now it's possible to get a GRC without making physical changes), and I don't think she mentioned toilets or changing rooms.

There’s a lot she didn’t mention. If she could clarify that it would help understand if she is transphobic.

JLR also supported Maya Forstater who lost her tribunal because the judge said her approach was not compatible with dignity and human rights in relation to trans people.

And trans men do not wish to be referred to as women. There was no need to do it.

Yes, there was. People with identity issues shouldn't set the terms for 51% of the population who are women. All people who menstruate are women. Zero are men.

@Belladonna12

How is it bitchy to highlight a biological fact?

Look up the meaning of bitchy.

Can you think of any example where the menstruated wasn’t a woman?

I don't see the relevance to my point.

I know the meaning of bitchy. That’s why my question was how is not bitchy to call me a menstruator? So is it not bitchy? I find it very bitchy. Why don’t you?

Same goes for calling me a birthing person or chest feeder. I am mortally offended and it’s absolutely not something I will remotely accept. I am a MOTHER and that includes all of this. Everyone can back the fuck off, thank you.

JLR also supported Maya Forstater who lost her tribunal because the judge said her approach was not compatible with dignity and human rights in relation to trans people.

One judge. In a lower court which doesn't set legal precedent. It's being appealed. Look at the language of the Harry Miller judgement.

So @Belladonna12, should we start calling men wankers as they hit puberty? What did you think of poopers?

I thought her comment that people who menstruate are all women was actually quite bitchy and unnecessary and I know it upset a lot of transmen. They haven't affected JK Rowling's or your rights to women only spaces. They haven't done anything to you all her. They are entitled to have negative opinion on her and don't have to prove anything to you.

During the recent month of “Movember” not a single men’s charity used the term “people with prostates” or “penis owners”. Yet everywhere else you look the word woman is being replaced. If you can’t see how that’s an issue - regardless of single sex spaces - then you need to think a bit more.

And for all the offence it supposedly caused trans men, wasn’t it telling that all those who condemned her - like Daniel Radcliffe for instance - only chose to repeat the phrase “trans women are women”. We’re the trans men you know were upset by Rowling also upset about how they were completely neglected in the follow up?

Maybe trans men just don’t want to be called women? It’s not that hard to understand.

I dont wish to be referred to as a person who mensrates (i dont) a birthing parent or a vulva haver but who gives a shit about that hey?
0.5% of the population dont get to dictate to the rest of us how we're refered to.
Especially when the need to do so comes from a severe mental illness.
Get help.
Don't inflict your illness on the rest of us.

And trans men do not wish to be referred to as women. There was no need to do it.

How come charities like Prostate Cancer UK don't use terms like 'prostate owners' in their literature? How come there is no problem with them using the word MEN all over all their stuff in big capital letters?! Where is the outcry about how non-inclusive that is? How come we don't have to refer to men as 'ejaculators'? Why is it only women who aren't allowed to name themselves?

JKR believes, as do I, that it is important to be able to name the class of humans who have periods, and that the word 'women' should not be erased and replaced with a word that describes a bodily function.

I'm sorry if that upsets some women who don't want to be women, but it upsets me to be described as an actual person with dehumanising language such as 'menstruator' or 'birthing body'.

Maybe trans men just don’t want to be called women? It’s not that hard to understand.

Do you think everyone should also pretend they aren't female? Maybe it's not all about what they want?

@Belladonna12

We obviously define "unnecessary" differently. Female erasure upsets me. The people you talk of are female, whether they like it or not. I do not wish to be referred to as a "menstruator".

And trans men do not wish to be referred to as women. There was no need to do it.

Rowling didn’t refer to trans men as women. The tweet Rowling was referencing in her tweet had nothing to do with trans men.

And for all the offence it supposedly caused trans men, wasn’t it telling that all those who condemned her - like Daniel Radcliffe for instance - only chose to repeat the phrase “trans women are women”. We’re the trans men you know were upset by Rowling also upset about how they were completely neglected in the follow up?

Yes, I didn't see much outcry about how transmen were excluded from Daniel Radcliffe's 'TWAW' response to JKR's tweets which werent even about transwomen!

Were the trans men you know upset with Daniel Radcliffe for excluding them in that way? Or is it only woman who get shit for not being inclusive enough?

As a woman, I would like to be referred to as a woman. Not a menstruator, pregnant person etc.